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Thread: Libya almost proves mt theory

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  1. #1
    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
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    Default Libya almost proves mt theory

    My theory that if Bush had come out and said we were going to war in Iraq in order to remove a brutal dictator other nations would have backed him up and the American people would have. It is crazy to think that we cant afford the two wars we are in now according to the Obama and Clinton but now that they are in a situation to remove an unpopular dictator they are taking the chance. This situation could also stretch on for years in Libya.

    I have no problem with acting in Libya along with our allies as long as we dont take the lead, we need to concentrate on finishing the other two wars before we put boots on the ground in Libya.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Libya almost proves mt theory

    Not sure if this is 100% accurate, but I heard that the Arab League asked us to do this. I'm okay with it, as long as they pay for it. I think that should have been the one condition we insisted upon before the bombing started. I don't think we got that deal, though, so we are just putting ourselves further in debt.

  3. #3
    Olympic Champ r.payton@att.net's Avatar
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    Default Re: Libya almost proves mt theory

    I have a hell of a problem with our role as gun for hire -the ''rebels'' want us to support them with air strikes but they do NOT want an infidel to set foot on their soil . The US did this in Korea , then Viet Nam , then covertly in Afghanistan , too covertly in fact as the Taliban took credit for beating the russians-yet they did so with our weapons, the same weapons they are using to kill our soldiers.
    Our military is starting to look a lot like an old tv show-''HAVE GUN, WILL TRAVEL'' . I skipped our involvement in Central and South America and especially Somalia as i get too angry to type !!
    This ''war'' is not ours . PERIOD!! And quinn 14 -if the rebels lose-HTH are we going to get paid ? At least contract hit men are smart enough to get 50% up front.
    At least in Iraq we found and destroyed all those WMDs.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Libya almost proves mt theory

    Quote Originally Posted by r.payton@att.net View Post
    I have a hell of a problem with our role as gun for hire -the ''rebels'' want us to support them with air strikes but they do NOT want an infidel to set foot on their soil . The US did this in Korea , then Viet Nam , then covertly in Afghanistan , too covertly in fact as the Taliban took credit for beating the russians-yet they did so with our weapons, the same weapons they are using to kill our soldiers.
    Our military is starting to look a lot like an old tv show-''HAVE GUN, WILL TRAVEL'' . I skipped our involvement in Central and South America and especially Somalia as i get too angry to type !!
    This ''war'' is not ours . PERIOD!! And quinn 14 -if the rebels lose-HTH are we going to get paid ? At least contract hit men are smart enough to get 50% up front.
    At least in Iraq we found and destroyed all those WMDs.

    Well, therein lies the crux of the problem.

    The "rebels" we're supporting today are far too often the "terrorists" we're fighting tomorrow. Not sure how many times this vicious cycle is going to perpetuate itself, but it's not doing us much good.

    And the only real solution...I suppose...is to go in, and do as we're doing in Iraq and just stay indefinitely to try and help them actually build an effective democracy and power structure. Of course we've also got a long history of supporting "democracy" provided it's the "right type" of democracy, ie, who we want to be in power.


    I guess I'll just have to have some degree of faith that Obama is going to get us out of there quickly and we'll have to see if the rebels turn out to be enemies in 20 years or not. I'm not too confident right now...
    "The true and present danger to America is conservatism!" -Abraham Lincoln

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    Olympic Champ kr1963's Avatar
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    Default Re: Libya almost proves mt theory

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger84 View Post
    Well, therein lies the crux of the problem.

    The "rebels" we're supporting today are far too often the "terrorists" we're fighting tomorrow. Not sure how many times this vicious cycle is going to perpetuate itself, but it's not doing us much good.

    And the only real solution...I suppose...is to go in, and do as we're doing in Iraq and just stay indefinitely to try and help them actually build an effective democracy and power structure. Of course we've also got a long history of supporting "democracy" provided it's the "right type" of democracy, ie, who we want to be in power.


    I guess I'll just have to have some degree of faith that Obama is going to get us out of there quickly and we'll have to see if the rebels turn out to be enemies in 20 years or not. I'm not too confident right now...
    Sorry but this completely naive.
    The "terrorists" are against the US government because the Arab world is aware of the continued suppression by "our" government of democracy in the region. Khomeini called the USA the "Great Satan" because of what "we" did to the Iranian people in supporting the Shah, (whose Savak took lessons from the SS apparently). In their eyes we are hypocrites & perpetrators of evil upon a populace that in 1950s had a democratically elected government overthrown by our CIA because we didn't like their anti-colonist petrol policies.

    This has been the US's long standing approach to the Middle East: Get OUR people in power so we get the OIL & if we squelch the human rights of their people along the way, too bad. No wonder that many of the people of the Arab world are anti-American. When that happened in our country we started our own revolution 235 years ago.

    If we were really serious about Democracy we wouldn't be enforcing puppet dictators across the world. And since we continue to do that then one can see by inductive reasoning that our government's real goal is empire building not world wide democracy.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Libya almost proves mt theory

    Quote Originally Posted by kr1963 View Post
    Sorry but this completely naive.
    The "terrorists" are against the US government because the Arab world is aware of the continued suppression by "our" government of democracy in the region. Khomeini called the USA the "Great Satan" because of what "we" did to the Iranian people in supporting the Shah, (whose Savak took lessons from the SS apparently). In their eyes we are hypocrites & perpetrators of evil upon a populace that in 1950s had a democratically elected government overthrown by our CIA because we didn't like their anti-colonist petrol policies.

    This has been the US's long standing approach to the Middle East: Get OUR people in power so we get the OIL & if we squelch the human rights of their people along the way, too bad. No wonder that many of the people of the Arab world are anti-American. When that happened in our country we started our own revolution 235 years ago.

    If we were really serious about Democracy we wouldn't be enforcing puppet dictators across the world. And since we continue to do that then one can see by inductive reasoning that our government's real goal is empire building not world wide democracy.

    What part of my post is either naive, OR differs from yours?


    Blanket and condescending "naive" comments are a little annoying. And yes, interfering in Iran at the behest of the UK and BP is just another in a long list of grievances from the middle east.

    EITHER WAY, the fact is, the people we support are often our enemies later on. Do you dispute this? Bin Laden, Sadaam, Mubarek, Kadaffi and others. If you want to delve further into causation, it's going to be a significantly longer post.
    "The true and present danger to America is conservatism!" -Abraham Lincoln

  7. #7

    Default Re: Libya almost proves mt theory

    I don't have the answer to how we get paid. I was thinking that maybe the Arab League could pay, not the rebels. I certainly don't have enough knowledge on how these things work to really know, though. That's why I would have stayed out unless someone else paid for it.

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    World Champ ODH's Avatar
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    Default Re: Libya almost proves mt theory

    When did the US become gun for hire?
    When does going to war and putting our soldiers life at risk, not to mention all the collateral damage and death that occur become a soley financial decision?
    If we are serious to committ lives to this we can sirelt find ways to pay for it.
    That fact that we are worrying about $$$, tells me that we are serious about this conflict.
    Gadaffi is a brutal dictator and I hope he gets taken out but this is Libyan issue, I don't see why we should be involved.
    I don't think these rebel group have any great love of democracy or the west.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Libya almost proves mt theory

    Those are certainly good questions. But, when was the last time an American fighter jet got shot down by an enemy, especially one like Libya? I think it is relatively safe to say that we could provide a no fly zone with little to no casualties. That being said, the fuel and cost of bombs, not to mention the hazardous pay cost us millions. Why not ask the Arab League to pay for it if that is what they want?

    Putting boots on the ground is a whole different story. And by the way, I know this is a bit off topic, but how do liberals think about the "Hope and Change"? That is not sarcastic. I am wondering if liberals agree with Obama keeping Gitmo open when he vowed to shut it down and now a pre-emptive bombing. Would you all vote for him again?

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