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Thread: Life was much better in Soviet times people in Siberia say

  1. #19

    Default Re: Life was much better in Soviet times people in Siberia say

    Quote Originally Posted by matclone View Post
    No, it doesn't. Do you think Big's posting of accounts of present day East Germany, or his claim that the Soviets were better under a communist state are an indictment of Bush or America?
    Honestly...yes.

    From reading Big's post over the past several months, I get the impression that he feels most injustices (preceived or real) that occur around the world are a result of western influence.

  2. #20

    Default Re: Life was much better in Soviet times people in Siberia say

    Quote Originally Posted by Big View Post
    Ground, its not a matter of which former communist country benefited but who and how many people have benefited. Most former communist party memebers are doing pretty well along with a few new money oligarchs. Heck, Putin was a KGB agent and now he is friends with Bush and Russian President. But the average Russian is basically screwed.

    How many people do you need to pump oil from the ground? The rest are on their own.

    They're on their own to fend for themselves and find a niche in the economy and make something of themselves.

    That's the American dream.

    I'll bet you anything that there are some creative and industrious Russians right now over in Russia dreaming up a product or service that will make them rich or at least provide enough income to feed their family.

    Who knows, maybe the next Bill Gates is somewhere in Russia developing the next invention that will chage the world.

    Look at the woman who wrote Harry Potter, she is filthy rich just for telling a story that millions of people wanted to read. Russians can tell stories too.

    Don't tell me the Russians don't have what it takes to compete in an open market.

  3. #21
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    Default Re: Life was much better in Soviet times people in Siberia say

    Ground,

    Like I said I only post what I find on the internet. I don't care who can make what money. People are saying the conditions are worse than before 1991. That is what is important.

    And yes, I think the most blame should be cast on the Western influence. and speeches such as bring down that wall. Some blame should be cast on weak Soviet leaders of the late 80s. A little Stalinism would be nice.

  4. #22
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    Default Re: Life was much better in Soviet times people in Siberia say

    Quote Originally Posted by Ground&Pound View Post
    They're on their own to fend for themselves and find a niche in the economy and make something of themselves.

    That's the American dream..
    I disagree. The American dream refers to opportunity, not to leaving people on their own to succeed, or it's corollary, to fail. There's a distinction. Moreover, the American dream isn't necessarily transplantable to any other culture.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ground&Pound View Post
    I'll bet you anything that there are some creative and industrious Russians right now over in Russia dreaming up a product or service that will make them rich or at least provide enough income to feed their family.

    Who knows, maybe the next Bill Gates is somewhere in Russia developing the next invention that will chage the world.

    Look at the woman who wrote Harry Potter, she is filthy rich just for telling a story that millions of people wanted to read. Russians can tell stories too.

    Don't tell me the Russians don't have what it takes to compete in an open market.
    And for all the alcoholics and early deaths and children affected by this--does it make you happy that they failed by your standards? Is that your idea of fairness?

    I had a conversation with a medical doctor from India a couple of weeks ago. He opined that entrepreneurialship, or creativity as you call it, is something Americans are good at, and that other cultures aren't--or at least they don't have that tradition.

  5. #23

    Default Re: Life was much better in Soviet times people in Siberia say

    Quote Originally Posted by matclone View Post
    I disagree. The American dream refers to opportunity, not to leaving people on their own to succeed, or it's corollary, to fail. There's a distinction. Moreover, the American dream isn't necessarily transplantable to any other culture.



    And for all the alcoholics and early deaths and children affected by this--does it make you happy that they failed by your standards? Is that your idea of fairness?

    I had a conversation with a medical doctor from India a couple of weeks ago. He opined that entrepreneurialship, or creativity as you call it, is something Americans are good at, and that other cultures aren't--or at least they don't have that tradition.

    How can this doctor simply blanket-state that some entire cultures are not good entrepreneurs? That is a bit discriminatory, don't you think? If he had made the statement that Jews are not good fighters or that muslims are not good people, would you have valued his comments as much? I didn't think so.

    Nonetheless, people will do whatever it takes to get what they need. We have seen it time and again throughout history. What hampers entrepreneurship in some cultures is the government restricting people's freedom. Once that restriction is lifted, they may not be on the same level as those who were free for a longer period, but the barriers to acheivement no longer exist.

  6. #24

    Default Re: Life was much better in Soviet times people in Siberia say

    Quote Originally Posted by matclone View Post
    I can't speak for Big, but there's a considerable amount of propaganda in the U.S. that says capitalism is wonderful, communism is evil, and that everything that is hunky dory in Eastern Europe following the fall of communism. I bet you will find no dissent whatsoever to this view on CNN, Fox, MSNBC, ABC, or CBS. And so, that notion is due for some challenges. That's one great thing about the internet: we dont' get the same old views from the same few sources. All I hope for, and seldom see here, is acknowledgment that there are problems with capitalism.
    What one deems to be propaganda may be up to interpretation. That aside, capitalism is nothing more than freedom. Each restriction of that freedom moves the balance away from capitalism. Anything other economic device carries some lesser degree of freedom.

    I think that we all can agree that freedom is empowerment and power. If the government limits an individual's ability to make his own decisions, that person is less powerful, while those in government are more powerful. In that case, those in government can affect the individual as they see fit, without the individual's consent. This option does not sound good to me.

    Sure, those who support capitalism are making a sunjective value judgment by declaring it to be a great economic device. But, to promote anything else is to declare that the greatest amount of freedom for the greatest number is not desirable -- some people shouldn't be free.

    I don't think anyone should have anythign less that full freedom. I wonder who you think should have freedom and who should not.

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