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Thread: Greetings From Balmy Madison, Wisconsin!

  1. #91

    Default Re: Greetings From Balmy Madison, Wisconsin!

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    It does account for education and experience. You seem to think that a degree is a degree and that if you have one you will make a ton of money, that is not the case. Certain degrees are worth more than others. How much do you think a degree in Music on average will garner in the private sector, I would guess about 20 grand a year on average as opposed to making 60 as a teacher with all those benefits.
    Where does it say it accounts for education and experience? And, as I said, this is only federal. All other public sector workers make less.

    You don't think there's a link between education levels and salary?! Care to bet on that? I do real cash; I've got a paypal account! Let me know...
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  2. #92

    Default Re: Greetings From Balmy Madison, Wisconsin!

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    CEO's are paid based on what the market will handle and in accordance with what the share holders believe the skills of that person to be worth. Most CEO's dont get paid in base salary they are paid in stock options and incentive. Why would I be mad at them? Those are private companies choosing to pay someone what they believe they are worth and what they can afford. Federal state and local employees are not paid based on what the city can afford they are paid based on negotiation, that saddles the tax payers with the responsibility of ponying up that money no matter what.
    The market CAN'T handle their salaries; that's the point.

    When workers' wages have been stagnant or declining for the average American worker over the past 40 years, when they have lost benefits over that same time, when the price of goods increase for them, and when they have to provide their livelihood by going in debt, no one is affording that. The dirty little secret is that an economy works best when everyone is doing well. For 40 years, only those at the top have benefitted.

    A second way that we pay CEO salaries is in tax breaks and every other means of corporate welfare that we shell out. It costs each of us 2.5 times more to fund that than it does welfare programs for the poor. What do we get in return? Low wages, lost benefits, and jobs shipped overseas.

    Yes, those derned union workers are ruining this country...
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  3. #93
    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
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    Default Re: Greetings From Balmy Madison, Wisconsin!

    Ban as was pointed out previously county and city employees make more, so only state employees make less every other public employee makes more. And yes having a degree makes you more money but it doesn't mean you will be paid well no matter what degree you have.

    As for the ceo, businesses choose to pay for those with education and experience to be on top. Its very hard to find good ceo but their skills demand a large salary. If you don't like it start a corporation and pay everyone the same, even you as the owner will make the same as the janitor. See how long your business lasts, see how many people volunteer to be ceo and work 80hrs a week for the same pay as the guy who mops the floor only working 32 hours a week.

  4. #94

    Default Re: Greetings From Balmy Madison, Wisconsin!

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    Ban as was pointed out previously county and city employees make more, so only state employees make less every other public employee makes more. And yes having a degree makes you more money but it doesn't mean you will be paid well no matter what degree you have.

    As for the ceo, businesses choose to pay for those with education and experience to be on top. Its very hard to find good ceo but their skills demand a large salary. If you don't like it start a corporation and pay everyone the same, even you as the owner will make the same as the janitor. See how long your business lasts, see how many people volunteer to be ceo and work 80hrs a week for the same pay as the guy who mops the floor only working 32 hours a week.
    In regard to the federal workers, the article says this, which is not accounted for in the analysis:
    "When you look at the actual duties, you see that very few federal jobs align with those in the private sector," she says. She says federal employees are paid an average of 26% less than non-federal workers doing comparable work. Office of Personnel Management spokeswoman Sedelta Verble, says higher pay also reflects the longevity and older age of federal workers."

    Better job security leads to them staying longer at their jobs. Hence, higher pay.

    In regard to the city and county workers, that's the only category where they are paid more, but a whopping 2% more.

    Again, class envy, except this is the age old trick of turning the working class against one another.

    Should CEO's earn more? Absolutely; I alluded to nothing that said we all should earn the same income. However, the economy did much better in the days when they only earned about 100 times more than what average workers did. Today, it is 350 times more (literally), and the economy has sucked for average folks for over 30 years.
    UNI Panthers...Because it's just right.

  5. #95

    Default Re: Greetings From Balmy Madison, Wisconsin!

    So Ban, since you are a union guy I have a question for you. Let's say you retire after your 30 years and you are promised 50k a year as a pension and the same health benefits. Then, your state goes bankrupt and doesn't have the money to pay you what they said they would because public unions wouldn't quit asking for more and more this year. What do you do? As a union guy, do you volunteer to give up some of the benefits so others don't have to get laid off. Or do you selfishly demand to get paid and let other union brothers get laid off? Or do you selfishly demand other people pay more in taxes?

  6. #96

    Default Re: Greetings From Balmy Madison, Wisconsin!

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    So you are saying that what happens in Iowa is what happens around the nation, because Ban has pointed out many times that Iowa does stuff differently than the rest of the nation. It was not an apples to apples comparison and I explained why earlier.
    But your explanation made no sense since you were incapable of contradicting the detailed description of how they did the apples to apples comparison in the study. Iowa does things no more differently than any other state. We are unique in the same way no other state is exactly like any other state.

  7. #97

    Default Re: Greetings From Balmy Madison, Wisconsin!

    Quote Originally Posted by quinn14 View Post
    So Ban, since you are a union guy I have a question for you. Let's say you retire after your 30 years and you are promised 50k a year as a pension and the same health benefits. Then, your state goes bankrupt and doesn't have the money to pay you what they said they would because public unions wouldn't quit asking for more and more this year. What do you do? As a union guy, do you volunteer to give up some of the benefits so others don't have to get laid off. Or do you selfishly demand to get paid and let other union brothers get laid off? Or do you selfishly demand other people pay more in taxes?
    Rather than use a fictitious scenario that doesn't exist, let me tell you what will actually happen when I do retire in 19 years (that will make 30 years).

    I likely won't make $50,000 per year. However, I'm not in the state pension system either. I'm in the TIAA-CREF program, which is a private retirement program that invests in stocks, bonds, etc. Investment weasels love folks like us.

    In this program, our school-not the state-puts 6% into this fund for me each check, and I contribute 3% to it. Not one tax dollar is used.

    So, that's the burden that I will place on the state of Iowa as a union thug.

    Now shall we talk about the $3.4 billion that we're losing in Iowa at present just because of state sales tax exemptions and corporate tax breaks? That money, alone, would take care of every bit of debt that we have in Iowa. The 5-8% of us in the state who are part of public sector unions can't possibly be the ones breaking the state's budget, in light of the welfare for the rich that we hand out.
    UNI Panthers...Because it's just right.

  8. #98

    Default Re: Greetings From Balmy Madison, Wisconsin!

    Quote Originally Posted by ban basketball View Post
    Rather than use a fictitious scenario that doesn't exist, let me tell you what will actually happen when I do retire in 19 years (that will make 30 years).

    I likely won't make $50,000 per year. However, I'm not in the state pension system either. I'm in the TIAA-CREF program, which is a private retirement program that invests in stocks, bonds, etc. Investment weasels love folks like us.

    In this program, our school-not the state-puts 6% into this fund for me each check, and I contribute 3% to it. Not one tax dollar is used.

    So, that's the burden that I will place on the state of Iowa as a union thug.

    Now shall we talk about the $3.4 billion that we're losing in Iowa at present just because of state sales tax exemptions and corporate tax breaks? That money, alone, would take care of every bit of debt that we have in Iowa. The 5-8% of us in the state who are part of public sector unions can't possibly be the ones breaking the state's budget, in light of the welfare for the rich that we hand out.
    Well, your union doesn't sound bad at all. In Ohio, they contribute nothing to their pensions and even have SS contributed to it instead of going where everyone else's go. Surely you can see in a situation like Ohio, something needs to be done. I think your retirement money should be on you, not tax payers. In a lot of states that is not the case. I guess Iowa is different. So, I don't think you should take any of this as an attack on your union. Other public unions need to be more like yours. That is all these governors are asking for.

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