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Thread: Seperate but unequal=growing chasm between rich and poor in America

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    Olympic Champ r.payton@att.net's Avatar
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    Default Seperate but unequal=growing chasm between rich and poor in America

    Separate but unequal: Charts show growing rich-poor gap

    <cite id="yn-author">By Zachary Roth</cite>

    <cite class="vcard"> By Zachary Roth zachary Roth </cite> ? <abbr title="2011-02-23T14:13:11-0800" class="timedate">Wed Feb 23, 5:13 pm ET</abbr>
    The Great Recession and the slump that followed have triggered a jobs crisis that's been making headlines since before President Obama was in office, and that will likely be with us for years. But the American economy is also plagued by a less-noted, but just as serious, problem: Simply put, over the last 30 years, the gap between rich and poor has widened into a chasm.
    Gradual developments like this don't typically lend themselves to news coverage. But Mother Jones magazine has crunched the data on inequality, and put together a group of stunning new charts. Taken together, they offer a dramatic visual illustration of who's doing well and who's doing badly in modern America.
    Here are three samples:
    •? This chart shows that the poorest 90 percent of Americans make an average of $31,244 a year, while the top 1 percent make over $1.1 million:

    ? According to this chart, most income groups have barely grown richer since 1979. But the top 1 percent has seen its income nearly quadruple:

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    Default Re: Seperate but unequal=growing chasm between rich and poor in America

    I've got pages and pages of this same stuff, but these are very useful and easy to see. Thanks for posting.

    Damned unions! Let's keep the prosperity going and give more tax breaks, eh?
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    Default Re: Seperate but unequal=growing chasm between rich and poor in America

    I think there would be a whole lot of people that would tell you 31k per year is not poor.

    I am not rich by any means, but I lived off 31k or less for years and never felt poor. To this day, I drive a used car. I stick by my father's word "when you buy new, you get used." I rarely go out to eat. I take a vacation once every 3-5 years when I've saved enough to pay cash. I am a grown man, but still have "play clothes" and "school clothes". My "school clothes" have been the same for many years, I just take care of them. I buy things that are on sale and don't bother with a wish list. Yet, even without much money I have managed not to miss a state tournament since 1987. I have raised 3 kids with these principles and they are all happy adults. Envy and jealousy will kill a person's inner being. They just aren't worth it.

    I think the bottom line is to live within your means. To quote Dave Ramsey, "act you wage". Material things aren't really that important to happiness. As long as a person works for what they have, they will appreciate it more. Wanting what someone else has is the quickest route to depression and/or suicide.

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    World Champ ODH's Avatar
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    Default Re: Seperate but unequal=growing chasm between rich and poor in America

    Quote Originally Posted by quinn14 View Post
    I think there would be a whole lot of people that would tell you 31k per year is not poor.

    I am not rich by any means, but I lived off 31k or less for years and never felt poor. To this day, I drive a used car. I stick by my father's word "when you buy new, you get used." I rarely go out to eat. I take a vacation once every 3-5 years when I've saved enough to pay cash. I am a grown man, but still have "play clothes" and "school clothes". My "school clothes" have been the same for many years, I just take care of them. I buy things that are on sale and don't bother with a wish list. Yet, even without much money I have managed not to miss a state tournament since 1987. I have raised 3 kids with these principles and they are all happy adults. Envy and jealousy will kill a person's inner being. They just aren't worth it.

    I think the bottom line is to live within your means. To quote Dave Ramsey, "act you wage". Material things aren't really that important to happiness. As long as a person works for what they have, they will appreciate it more. Wanting what someone else has is the quickest route to depression and/or suicide.
    Your own personal finances are completely off-topic. There are serious socio-economic consequences to great differences in income disparities. Typically the capitalist justification for people amassing great forutnes is they are usually entrepenuers who have made the whole society richer (think Bill Gates).

    Also the statistic is that the bottom 90% average earnings is $31K. It is not saying that $31 is the poverty level. Income averages are usually medians, show that measn 45% of the country is living on less than $31K. I think the poverty level is somwhere around $12K.

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    Default Re: Seperate but unequal=growing chasm between rich and poor in America

    Quote Originally Posted by ODH View Post
    Also the statistic is that the bottom 90% average earnings is $31K. It is not saying that $31 is the poverty level. Income averages are usually medians, show that measn 45% of the country is living on less than $31K. I think the poverty level is somwhere around $12K.
    I am no math wizard. But in simple terms this shows that 90% of our country makes at least 31k. That means for every person making 11k there has to be someone making 51k. They are all grouped together, in this statistic, as "poor". This proves to me that we have the "richest" poor people in the world.

    Also, it says that the top 1% makes an average of 1.1million. That would mean that for every Billionaire (Gates, Buffet) there would have to be someone making 100K to even it out.

    This study, to me, reads like it is trying to divide people. Why don't they do an entire breakdown of who is making what and the percentages to go with it? I would suggest that they include welfare and/or unemployment packages in their assesments because those are forms of income. A study like that would give a better look at income disparities than this one that just says rich vs poor.

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    World Champ ODH's Avatar
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    Default Re: Seperate but unequal=growing chasm between rich and poor in America

    Quote Originally Posted by quinn14 View Post
    I am no math wizard. But in simple terms this shows that 90% of our country makes at least 31k. That means for every person making 11k there has to be someone making 51k. They are all grouped together, in this statistic, as "poor". This proves to me that we have the "richest" poor people in the world.

    Also, it says that the top 1% makes an average of 1.1million. That would mean that for every Billionaire (Gates, Buffet) there would have to be someone making 100K to even it out.
    .
    That is not how averages work when the median is used to for the average and median is typically used for this type of statistic. What a median means is half the people make more and half the people make less, that way people who are at the very extremem (i.e. Gates and Buffet) do not skew the statistics.

    There also nothing in that graphic that is saying the bottom 90% are being group as poor.

    Quote Originally Posted by quinn14 View Post
    ...
    This study, to me, reads like it is trying to divide people. Why don't they do an entire breakdown of who is making what and the percentages to go with it? I would suggest that they include welfare and/or unemployment packages in their assesments because those are forms of income. A study like that would give a better look at income disparities than this one that just says rich vs poor.
    I can't see anything is these graphs that is trying to divide people. They are showing numbers without any commentary. I also don't understand what you mean by "entire breakdown of who is making what and the percentages to go with it".
    I would assume that this study includes welface and unmeployment benefits as well and not sure why it woudl really matter as those benenfits are not taking soemone from the bottom 90% into the top 10% of income.

    Quote Originally Posted by quinn14 View Post
    ...
    A study like that would give a better look at income disparities than this one that just says rich vs poor.
    Again the graphs mention nothing about rich v. poor. That is just your interpretation of the statistics.

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    Default Re: Seperate but unequal=growing chasm between rich and poor in America

    Quote Originally Posted by ODH View Post
    That is not how averages work when the median is used to for the average and median is typically used for this type of statistic. What a median means is half the people make more and half the people make less, that way people who are at the very extremem (i.e. Gates and Buffet) do not skew the statistics.

    There also nothing in that graphic that is saying the bottom 90% are being group as poor.
    To your first paragrah, that is why I said I wasn't a math wizard. Obviously, I forgot or never did learn what a median was. For your second comment, I guess "technically" you are right. But the first post said "the poorest 90% of America make an average of $31,244 per year." It didn't mention a median and did say POOREST, so therefore I took it to mean poor. Which is why I commented that 31k was not poor.

    About how much people make on welfare, I don't really think they do. Here is my only example.

    My buddy's friend went through a divorce. Got depressed and quit his job. After applying for welfare, for no good reason, he got 1k per month paycheck. $200 per month food card. His duplex was approved for $450 per month section 8 and his kid got a medical card. All that added up is $1650 per month in payments plus a medical card for a kid you have shared parenting with. That is over 20k per year to a guy who just got depressed and chose not to work. The real shame of it is that he stayed on welfare for 4 years until he found an entry level job that could offer him more on day 1. I don't call that poor. Yet, I don't deny that there are poor in America.

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    Default Re: Seperate but unequal=growing chasm between rich and poor in America

    Unfortunately with much of the unskilled labor jobs going over seas it is very difficult for people to get a good paying job. You also can not legislate income, well you could but we know that socialism or communism fail. The trick is to incentivise hiring at good wages here in the states. Raising the minimum wage I believe will go toward keeping the income gap wide.

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    Default Re: Seperate but unequal=growing chasm between rich and poor in America

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    Unfortunately with much of the unskilled labor jobs going over seas it is very difficult for people to get a good paying job.
    As a person who worked unskilled labor for several years, I will tell you that jobs going over seas are the least of the worries. What people either don't know or don't want to admit is that most of the unskilled labor is being replaced by technology. What used to take maybe 100 people on an assembly line to do, now takes about 10 because of technology. You then add in the fact that ALL kids are told to go to college so they can "become something" and you have a recipe for disaster.

    Not every person is made for college. But if you listen to the media (and all kids do) all you hear is that you need to go to college to get a good job. So, those who don't like school, yet would be great on an assembly line are made to think they aren't as good as others. Therefore, many American kids come out of high school thinking that they have to go to college and when they can't make the grades, they feel like failures. In swoops legal immigrants from poorer countries who are happy to have the job and don't feel like failures, and you now have factories of today.

    I'm not saying that the immigrants doing the job is bad, I'm just saying that jobs going over seas is getting WAAAY to much credit for the lack of manufacturing jobs in this country.

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