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Discuss UAW needs to make concessions at the Politics & Religion within the Wrestling Talk Forums; Originally Posted by zmanc Forgive me for my ignorance, but why do pensions exist? Was ...
  1. #10
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    Default Re: UAW needs to make concessions

    Quote Originally Posted by zmanc View Post
    Forgive me for my ignorance, but why do pensions exist? Was the pension plan started in place of a pay raise, or just a way to grow government, or can't people save on their own for retirement??? Frankly I don't know... Someone enlighten me.
    Pensions existed well before the social security program, which was implemented in the 1960's. The pension is still considered a supplement to SS and a traditional retirement program.
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    Default Re: UAW needs to make concessions

    Let the Big 3 go under. Their product is overpriced and sub-par. All their employees are far over [aid, and miserably under preform. I quit buying their product when the last one I had only lasted 85,000 miles.

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    Default Re: UAW needs to make concessions

    Comparing wages between Toyota and the Big 3 is pretty meaningless. The union contracts with the Big 3 guarantee annual compensation will be much higher than simply wage*40hours*52 weeks. Many of these union contracts have guaranteed "overtime" even when no overtime is actually worked (ie. greater than 40 hours per week). Overtime is not simply 1.5*wage; it's often 2X or 3X the individual's normal wage.

    At one of my old employers, I knew union guys whose wage was $26/hour but grossed over $100,000 every year and close to $150,000 some years. Those guys did work some overtime (probably averaged 10-15 hours OT/week). They also got paid during vacation (8 weeks/yr for the older guys). My old employer was not an auto company but a utility company.

    If you really want to get an apples to apples comparison, you need to look at the gross earnings/employee at UAW plants and divide it by the hours worked/employee. My guess is the true average hourly wage is far higher than the UAW stated number of $28 (or whatever it is). My guess is the true wage is well north of $40.
    Last edited by ArmyFan; 12-16-2008 at 12:05 PM. Reason: grammar mistakes

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    Olympic Champ therick's Avatar
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    Default Re: UAW needs to make concessions

    Of note on this topic is the article I read on CNN.com yesterday. They interviewed people from Toyota and apparently Toyota has a significant interest in making sure none of the big three fail.

    http://money.cnn.com/2008/12/15/news...ion=2008121609

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    Default Re: UAW needs to make concessions

    Quote Originally Posted by ArmyFan View Post
    Comparing wages between Toyota and the Big 3 is pretty meaningless. The union contracts with the Big 3 guarantee annual compensation will be much higher than simply wage*40hours*52 weeks. Many of these union contracts have guaranteed "overtime" even when no overtime is actually worked (ie. greater than 40 hours per week). Overtime is not simply 1.5*wage; it's often 2X or 3X the individual's normal wage.

    At one of my old employers, I knew union guys whose wage was $26/hour but grossed over $100,000 every year and close to $150,000 some years. Those guys did work some overtime (probably averaged 10-15 hours OT/week). They also got paid during vacation (8 weeks/yr for the older guys). My old employer was not an auto company but a utility company.

    If you really want to get an apples to apples comparison, you need to look at the gross earnings/employee at UAW plants and divide it by the hours worked/employee. My guess is the true average hourly wage is far higher than the UAW stated number of $28 (or whatever it is). My guess is the true wage is well north of $40.
    Try around $82 in wages & benes.

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    Default Re: UAW needs to make concessions

    Quote Originally Posted by ban basketball View Post
    Pensions existed well before the social security program, which was implemented in the 1960's. The pension is still considered a supplement to SS and a traditional retirement program.
    President Roosevelt signed the Social Security Act into law in 1935.

    The Social Security Act was a comprehensive law consisting of 11 titles, or subjects. Six of the original programs were Old-Age Assistance, Old-Age Benefits (for retirement), Unemployment Compensation, Aid to Dependent Children (ADC), Maternal and Child Welfare, and Aid to the Blind.

    Pension plans became popular in the United States during World War II, when wage freezes prohibited outright increases in workers' pay. Federal labor acts stated encouraged pension plans as a bargaining point, in lieu of the wage freezes. The government then made allowances for tax deductibility and employers saw the pension as a means of retaining experienced workers.
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    Default Re: UAW needs to make concessions

    Quote Originally Posted by Tight-Waist View Post
    Try around $82 in wages & benes.
    Tight-Waist, I've read that number but believe it's misleading also. I believe, the $82/hour number is derived by taking the total $ amount spent on wages and benefits for current workers and retirees and dividing it by the total number hours worked.

    I'd be really interested to know the average UAW worker's W-2 income divided by the actual hours he worked for the year. My guess is that number (which ignores benefits) is over $40.

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    Default Re: UAW needs to make concessions

    When will Toyota have retirees? What are there benefits?
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    Default Re: UAW needs to make concessions

    Quote Originally Posted by ArmyFan View Post
    Tight-Waist, I've read that number but believe it's misleading also. I believe, the $82/hour number is derived by taking the total $ amount spent on wages and benefits for current workers and retirees and dividing it by the total number hours worked.

    I'd be really interested to know the average UAW worker's W-2 income divided by the actual hours he worked for the year. My guess is that number (which ignores benefits) is over $40.
    According to factcheck.org: http://factcheckcms.bootnetworks.com...iew.php?id=865

    UAW workers make about $40/hour (when overtime, bonuses, vacations, etc are factored in), another $15/hour for health and pension costs, and another $15 for 'legacy costs' (healthcare and pensions for retired workers).

    Foreign companies pay about the same (and in some cases more), but have lower legacy costs (about $3/hour) mostly due to them having fewer retired workers to pay.

    An agreement between the big 3 and the UAW in 2007 is expected to lower the legacy costs of the big 3 to around $3/hour, which would put them pretty level with their foreign competitors.
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