Curious as to why this is on the P&R board, its no big deal or anything, I guess baseball is a religion to some of us?

---

I can't blame Aaron for not wanting to go see Bonds. Anyone with even a decent bit of sense can tell he's juiced. He'll break the record assuming he doesn't get hurt, but while there won't be a literal asterisk next to his name, you can bet in a lot of people's heads there will be a figurative one.

Originally Posted by matclone

Jensen, I started this thread and I have no good explanation as to why I started it here.

If we assume Bonds is juiced, then isn't it reasonable to assume that other players of his generation were also juiced?

Absolutely. Palmiero already got caught, Canseco and Giambi have copped to it, Sosa and McGwire looking at before/after/and more after pictures of them make things look quite fishy.

If so, he's still one of the greats of his era--even if the statistical comparison to past greats, such as Aaron, may be in question.

Agreed, he was a first ballot HOF even before 01 when he broke the record.

MoJo: words of a real baseball fan.

Years ago, I used to get the same kind of feeling when Bob Gibson was pitching. I swear, when the game was on the line, he would strike out batters just to settle the matter--even strike out the side. Of course, I had Harry Carey and Jack Buck telling me all about it--which helped.

Just my take on Bonds. In my opinion "Game of Shadows" completely nailed him. He's still a Hall of Famer in my opinion, but I don't see many sparing him any love when it comes time to look at his final place in history.

Originally Posted by MOJO

Brother Flop the Nuts,
Quite a few SF fans DO feel that Barry has reciprocated as a nice guy and returned our love for him. He always tips his cap, tosses foul balls to little kids in the stands, sponsors his fair share of charities and youth groups, but most importantly, damn most importantly...., especially during his 5x MVP era (not counting the 2 in P'burg) EVERY SINGLE TIME THE MAN STEPS IN THE BATTERS BOX, every SF Giant fan feels HOPE, true, genuine, child-innocent HOPE, that something GREAT was going to happen. And about 1 in 7 times, it did! I can't tell you how many times I have held the HOPE that is BONDS in the palm of my hand, up late at night on the East coast, hoping for that great swing, that explosion of a connection that signifies the opening of the doors to glory, then to have that hope REALIZED!!! You have to experience it to understand it. I can't even think of an analogious wrestler, with the possible exception of watching Kenny Monday and Andy Seras in their prime. Both guys would always seem to get that big throw or shot for 4 or 5, and like Barry, displayed supreme self confidence that said " Wasn't a matter of IF just WHEN buddy!"

I really believe that this confidence is the at the core of Barry's mistique for Giant fans, and its his gift to us. In that moment, WE know its a matter of when too. For a moment, we OWN the opposing pitcher, catcher and manager. I don't expect fans of other teams to understand this, and I can even understand the distain that some folks have for the great man, if the hope that Barry provides is not destined for you and your interests. I can imagine that you will just react to what you read or hear in the media. But for those of us who are lucky enough to have him fighting for our cause ( a formerly consistant now turned pathetic team with a glorious history now relegated to trying to win a pathetic division) well, Barry has truely been a gift from God.

MOJO, I don't doubt that SF fans get a thrill from Bonds. I live in the SF Bay area, so I see it in the newspapers and hear it on sports radio. If you're a Giants fan, then it would certainly be thrilling for him to pull through in the clutch with a homer once in every seven at bats. That's not even debatable.

I believe that Bonds has taken massive amounts of steroids, and that is the reason he has had so many great seasons so late in his career. I believe that Giants fans are willfully ignoring the circumstantial evidence, and they overlook his surliness and arrogance. If he wasn't a Giant (no pun intended), then SF fans would have no love for him at all, IMO. He's certainly not a beloved player like Willie Mays, Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, Muhammed Ali, etc...

Maybe Aaron is'nt going to SF b/c he doesn't want to see the record broken?

.191
1 hr
3 RBI
in 20 post season games for the Pirates

Not to mention the saddest moment in Pittsburgh sports history... the slowest man in baseball, Sid Bream scoring from second base on a weak and off target Bonds throw to blow a trip to the World Series.

That's the legacy he left in Pittsburgh.

Originally Posted by Ground&Pound

.191
1 hr
3 RBI
in 20 post season games for the Pirates

Not to mention the saddest moment in Pittsburgh sports history... the slowest man in baseball, Sid Bream scoring from second base on a weak and off target Bonds throw to blow a trip to the World Series.

That's the legacy he left in Pittsburgh.

Brother Ground&Pound,
We were happy to take him off of yer hand for ya !

Baseball is a team sport and Barry is a "me" player.

He didn't fit in at all in Pittsburgh.
Cali is more his style.