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Thread: Repeal the Anti-American and Unconstitutional "PATRIOT" Act!

  1. #10
    Olympic Champ RYou's Avatar
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    Default Re: Repeal the Anti-American and Unconstitutional "PATRIOT" Act!

    "The Patriot Act opens the door for freedoms to vanish if someone suddenly decides that YOU or anyone is a TERRORIST because you don't agree with their policies."

    The Patriot Act does not address "policy" or differences of opinion. It is focused on (with some exceptions such as telemarketing fraud which was a toss in for convenience) physical acts intended to threaten the American public through physical destruction and personal injury.That includes the financing of terrorism through various money laundering schemes.

    "Leads to profiling which people indiscriminantly target a specific group, like what happen to the Japaneses during WWII."

    The required background checks are not discriminatory in any way. They are required whether you are from Pakistan or Brazil or Korea, of Spain. It's required for anyone applying for a student or work visa in the US.

    I might add that anyone, including US residents, applying to the graduate law, business or med school a major US university will have a background check conducted as part of the admissions process. That check is not required by any US or state law.


    "It didn't stop the telemarketing of fraudulent mortgages being sold."

    Either you were not on the "Do Not Call" list, or whomever you bank with sold your background to other finance companies. You probably tossed the little flyer your bank sent to you with information on how to opt of those sales. You have to opt out when asked. I get plenty of crap in the mail weekly, but never a phone call.

    "Sorry but I am not letting these guys get that much power."

    They already have the "power", all it does is allow a single request for multiple phones reducing court time for multiple requests. Until the Act, they would just create the paperwork multiple times. By the way that section of the law applies to all law enforcement be it investigation of a potential terrorist or the local PD tapping the phones of a drug dealer.

    "This "law" was created to the pleas of the knee-jerk crowd & that is what the powers @ be are counting on."

    All but 1 senator and 100% of the House, Dems, Repubs and Indies, everyone voted for it. Pretty tough to call that a knee jerk reaction. Does it need to be tweeked and amended sure, but not erased.

    " This WAR costs about 275 MILLION dollars per day. Someone is making a lot of money & no one can even keep track of it. It is gross."

    Even if we walked away from Iraq and Afghanistan tomorrow, the ACT won't go away. The WAR does not support the ACT. They are two separate issues.

    "Bottom line we have a government building "an empire" around the world that costs TRILLIONS & you & I AND are paying for it."

    They are not trying to "build" an empire, the international relations and international funding of other countries go back to the 1800's. Hey, the US would have never broken away from England without that same financial aid from France. Much of the international funding the US ships abroad is by agreement with the World Bank and various global pacts. Now I'm not saying the cash we throw at Egypt or the Saudi's is by international monetary agreement. That funding for an entirely different purpose.

    My point is, the US is not trying to build an empire, it's trying to maintain influence, I wouldn't call it an empire.
    Last edited by RYou; 02-05-2011 at 11:08 PM.
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  2. #11
    Olympic Champ kr1963's Avatar
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    Default Re: Repeal the Anti-American and Unconstitutional "PATRIOT" Act!

    ‘‘(A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are
    a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or
    of any State;

    ‘‘(B) appear to be intended—
    ‘‘(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
    ‘‘(ii) to influence the policy of a government by
    intimidation or coercion; or
    ‘‘(iii) to affect the conduct of a government by
    mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and
    ‘‘(C) occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction
    of the United States.’’.
    (b) CONFORMING AMENDMENT.—Section 3077(1) of title 18,
    United States Code, is amended to read as follows:
    ‘‘(1) ‘act of terrorism’ means an act of domestic or international
    terrorism as defined in section 2331;’’.

    1) We already have LAWS against these acts;
    2) While "intimidate or coerce" is definite in meaning how it is applied could altered to include people protesting angrily over some injustice, as one example. You open the door here to curbing freedoms with "additional laws"
    3) One could say that the US government itself uses such tactics when the IRS or FTC or FDA closes down a business or seizes property without due process.

  3. #12
    Olympic Champ RYou's Avatar
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    Default Re: Repeal the Anti-American and Unconstitutional "PATRIOT" Act!

    1) We already have LAWS against these acts;

    Keep in mind, that I am suggesting portions of the ACT should be amended but not all require amendment.
    For the most part, it is true criminal law preexisted, but the ACT also creates deterrents to future events.
    Most of the 911 assassins were admitted to the US under the guise of a student visa.
    Several from terrorist groups were found to be employed driving gasoline tankers
    Prior to 911 certain types of biologicals that could be used for mass attacks did not require any paper trail for shipping, now we have that trail.


    2) While "intimidate or coerce" is definite in meaning how it is applied could altered to include people protesting angrily over some injustice, as one example. You open the door here to curbing freedoms with "additional laws"

    " how it is applied could altered"

    That's speculation again - show me a historic event where someone was frivolously persecuted under a title in the Patriot Act for expressing an opinion.

    3) One could say that the US government itself uses such tactics when the IRS or FTC or FDA closes down a business or seizes property without due process.


    The laws and regulations governing the IRS, FTC, FDA, FCC, EPA, OSHA, were already on the books giving those departments the power to close a business. Those regulations and actions have nothing to do with the Patriot Act and preceded the Act.

    So far you've demonstrated much fear of the Act but have yet to cite any case where the aspects of the Act I have cited was applied abusively.
    Life's not the breaths you take, the breathing in and out that gets you through the day ain't what it's all about. It's the moments that take your breath away.

  4. #13
    Olympic Champ kr1963's Avatar
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    Default Re: Repeal the Anti-American and Unconstitutional "PATRIOT" Act!

    Yesterday, the U.S. House DEFEATED legislation to extend three of the so-called “PATRIOT” Act’s controversial provisions.

    Because the bill was put on the “Suspension Calendar,” it needed 290 votes to pass.

    Thanks to the quick action of true Patriots, however, the vote failed 277-148.
    Click here to see how your representative voted.

    Remember that the legislation was expected to easily pass. Don’t let anyone ever tell you it’s hopeless to fight for your freedoms.

    This fight is only beginning. The three provisions expire on February 28, so this is not the last you and I will hear of extending them.

    Click here to find your representative’s contact information.

    If your representative voted against extending the provisions, thank them for their stand but tell them you expect consistency and opposition on every vote to extend ANY part of the so-called “PATRIOT” Act.

    If your representative voted for the Bill of Rights-shredding “PATRIOT” Act tonight, remind them of their oath to uphold the Constitution. Urge them to put the American People’s rights before the surveillance state’s power by rejecting the “PATRIOT” Act on every vote.




  5. #14

    Default Re: Repeal the Anti-American and Unconstitutional "PATRIOT" Act!

    Proud to see us democrats still standing firm against this.

    Now we just have to get President Obama to join our own ranks!
    UNI Panthers...Because it's just right.

  6. #15
    Olympic Champ kr1963's Avatar
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    Default Re: Repeal the Anti-American and Unconstitutional "PATRIOT" Act!

    Ron Paul was one those obviously voted against it:
    It lists YEAS-NAYS-NO VOTE

    <table width="90%" align="center" border="4"><tbody><tr><td>Republican</td><td align="right">210</td><td align="right">26</td><td align="right"> </td><td align="right">5</td></tr><tr><td>Democratic</td><td align="right">67</td><td align="right">122</td><td align="right"> </td><td align="right">4</td></tr></tbody></table>

  7. #16
    Olympic Champ RYou's Avatar
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    Default Re: Repeal the Anti-American and Unconstitutional "PATRIOT" Act!

    .........like I said, there is value in the Patriots Act. It facilitates ability to root this stuff out.

    International Money Laundering.............through 50 US car dealerships.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41512092...deastn_africa/
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  8. #17
    Olympic Champ kr1963's Avatar
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    Default Re: Repeal the Anti-American and Unconstitutional "PATRIOT" Act!


  9. #18
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    Default Re: Repeal the Anti-American and Unconstitutional "PATRIOT" Act!

    Senator Rand Paul's Letter of Opposition to the Patriot Act



    WASHINGTON, D.C. - Senator Rand Paul (Ky.) released the following Dear Colleague letter to his fellow Senators this morning regarding the renewal of the USA PATRIOT Act. (2/15/2011)

    Dear Colleague:

    James Otis argued against general warrants and writs of assistance that were issued by British soldiers without judicial review and that did not name the subject or items to be searched.

    He condemned these general warrants as "the worst instrument[s] of arbitrary power, the most destructive of English liberty and the fundamental principles of law, that ever w[ere] found in an English law book." Otis objected to these writs of assistance because they "placed the liberty of every man in the hands of every petty officer." The Fourth Amendment was intended to guarantee that only judges-not soldiers or policemen-would issue warrants. Otis' battle against warrantless searches led to our Fourth Amendment guarantee against unreasonable government intrusion.

    My main objection to the PATRIOT Act is that searches that should require a judge's warrant are performed with a letter from an FBI agent-a National Security Letter ("NSL").

    I object to these warrantless searches being performed on United States citizens. I object to the 200,000 NSL searches that have been performed without a judge's warrant.

    I object to over 2 million searches of bank records, called Suspicious Activity Reports, performed on U.S. citizens without a judge's warrant.

    As February 28<sup>th</sup> approaches, with three provisions of the USA PATRIOT Act set to expire, it is time to re-consider this question: Do the many provisions of this bill, which were enacted in such haste after 9/11, have an actual basis in our Constitution, and are they even necessary to achieve valid law-enforcement goals?

    The USA PATRIOT Act, passed in the wake of the worst act of terrorism in U.S. history, is no doubt well-intentioned. However, rather than examine what went wrong, and fix the problems, Congress instead hastily passed a long-standing wish list of power grabs like warrantless searches and roving wiretaps. The government greatly expanded its own power, ignoring obvious answers in favor of the permanent expansion of a police state.

    It is not acceptable to willfully ignore the most basic provisions of our Constitution-in this case-the Fourth and First Amendments-in the name of "security."

    For example, one of the three provisions set to expire on February 28<sup>th</sup>-the "library provision," section 215 of the PATRIOT Act-allows the government to obtain records from a person or entity by making only the minimal showing of "relevance" to an international terrorism or espionage investigation. This provision also imposes a year-long nondisclosure, or "gag" order. "Relevance" is a far cry from the Fourth Amendment's requirement of probable cause. Likewise, the "roving wiretap" provision, section 206 of the PATRIOT Act, which is also scheduled to expire on the 28<sup>th</sup>, does not comply with the Fourth Amendment. This provision makes possible "John Doe roving wiretaps," which do not require the government to name the target of the wiretap, nor to identify the specific place or facility to be monitored. This bears an uncanny resemblance to the Writs of Assistance fought against by Otis and the American colonists.

    Other provisions of the PATRIOT Act previously made permanent and not scheduled to expire present even greater concerns. These include the use and abuse by the FBI of so-called National Security Letters. These secret demand letters, which allow the government to obtain financial records and other sensitive information held by Internet Service Providers, banks, credit companies, and telephone carriers-all without appropriate judicial oversight-also impose a gag order on recipients.

    NSL abuse has been and likely continues to be rampant. The widely-circulated 2007 report issued by the Inspector General from the Department of Justice documents "widespread and serious misuse of the FBI's national security letter authorities. In many instances, the FBI's misuse of national security letters violated NSL statutes, Attorney General Guidelines, or the FBI's own internal policies." Another audit released in 2008 revealed similar abuses, including the fact that the FBI had issued inappropriate "blanket NSLs" that did not comply with FBI policy, and which allowed the FBI to obtain data on 3,860 telephone numbers by issuing only eleven "blanket NSLs." The 2008 audit also confirmed that the FBI increasingly used NSLs to seek information on U.S. citizens. From 2003 to 2006, almost 200,000 NSL requests were issued. In 2006 alone, almost 60% of the 49,425 requests were issued specifically for investigations of U.S. citizens or legal aliens.

    In addition, First Amendment advocates should be concerned about an especially troubling aspect of the 2008 audit, which documented a situation in which the FBI applied to the United States Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISC) to obtain a section 215 order. The Court denied the order on First Amendment grounds. Not to be deterred, the FBI simply used an NSL to obtain the same information.

    A recent report released by the Electronic Frontier Foundation ("EFF") entitled, "Patterns of Misconduct: FBI Intelligence Violations from 2001-2008," documents further NSL abuse. EFF estimates that, based on the proportion of violations reported to the Intelligence Oversight Board and the FBI's own statements regarding NSL violations, the actual number of violations that may have occurred since 2001 could approach 40,000 violations of law, Executive Order, and other regulations.

    Yet another troublesome (and now permanent) provision of the PATRIOT Act is the expansion of Suspicious Activity Reports. Sections 356 and 359 expanded the types of financial institutions required to file reports under the Bank Secrecy Act. The personal and account information required by the reports is turned over to the Treasury Department and the FBI. In 2000, there were only 163,184 reports filed. By 2007, this had increased to 1,250,439. Again, as with NSLs, there is a complete lack of judicial oversight for SARs.

    Finally, I wish to remind my colleagues that one of the many ironies of the rush to advance the PATRIOT Act following 9/11 is the well-documented fact that FBI incompetence caused the failure to search the computer of the alleged 20<sup>th</sup> hijacker, Zacarias Moussaoui. As FBI agent Coleen Rowley stated, "the FBI headquarters supervisory special agent handling the Moussaoui case 'seemed to have been consistently almost deliberately thwarting the Minneapolis FBI agents' efforts" to meet the FISA standard for a search warrant, and therefore no request was ever made for a warrant. Why, then, was the FBI rewarded with such expansive new powers in the aftermath of this institutional failure?

    In the words of former Senator Russ Feingold, the only "no" vote against the original version of the PATRIOT Act,
    "[T]here is no doubt that if we lived in a police state, it would be easier to catch terrorists. If we lived in a country that allowed the police to search your home at any time for any reason; if we lived in a country that allowed the government to open your mail, eavesdrop on your phone conversations, or intercept your email communications; if we lived in a country that allowed the government to hold people in jail indefinitely based on what they write or think, or based on mere suspicion that they are up to no good, then the government would no doubt discover and arrest more terrorists. But that probably would not be a country in which we would want to live. And that would not be a country for which we could, in good conscience, ask our young people to fight and die. In short, that would not be America."
    I call upon each of my Senate colleagues to seriously consider whether the time has come to re-evaluate many-if not all-provisions of the PATRIOT Act. Our oath to uphold the Constitution demands it.

    Sincerely,

    Rand Paul, M.D.
    United States Senator

    Link to pdf (~1 MB) Here

    Stay tuned for future updates on Sen. Paul. You can follow the Senator's official Twitter account here and his YouTube channel here. The official Facebook page also went live this week.

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