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Thread: WikiLeaks could be vulnerable to Espionage Act

  1. #19
    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
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    Default Re: WikiLeaks could be vulnerable to Espionage Act

    The first thing I would ask is why are we bombing yemen. Could it be because they are harboring terrorists and we have a reason to be doing it. What is going on to cause the bombing. I would then say do I need to know that right now, does the general public need to know it right now. Or might that info have hurt the operation and diminished our chances of accomplishing what we need to.

    The court wont have to try and determine his intention he has stated his intention and how he hates America and what it stands for.

    Would you agree that it is not practical for the general public to know everything? Would you also agree that it is in our nations best interest for classified information to stay classified until a time when it is determined that there is no need for it to be classified? Would you then also agree that these leaks are not only potentially dangerous to the U.S and its troops but also harms the diplomatic relations with other nations? If you agree is that not enough to charge this man and send the message?

  2. #20
    Olympic Champ kr1963's Avatar
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    Default Re: WikiLeaks could be vulnerable to Espionage Act

    From FLOP
    Do you consider all employees in government to be a part of the current administration? Armitage was Powell's boy, not Bush's.

    Who pardoned Libby? His sentence was commuted and he paid over $250K in fines, but he still wound up with five felonies on his record, resulting in him losing his license to practice law.
    Do you know who Richard Armitage IS?
    Powell's boy? Hell he has been around so long I will bet that Powell deferred to him a lot! He is a Neo-con big time, served in the State Dept under Reagan & was in the thick of the Iran-contra scandal & then served under Bush Sr. He was not a typical life-long apolitical underling & bureaucrat that resides inside the beltway. He was & is a part of the machine.

    He was a part of the Project for the New American Century, (PNAC) a neo-con "think tank" (headed by the likes of World Bank President Paul Wolfowitz) which wrote the now infamous Rebuilding America's Defenses letter where in it states:
    "Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event––like a new Pearl Harbor"
    THIS 3 years before 9/11.

    And you are talking about a guy who was not only linked to organized crime but also to covert ops that funneled drug sale monies in Asia to fund political assassinations. I could on but hopefully that is enough to make anyone see that he isn't clean & that he had an agenda. The stuff he has done is far worse then anything Wikileaks has done but the guy has many distinguished service medals. Go figure.

  3. #21

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    I understand the federal laws have probably changed, but why isn't Wikileaks and Assange more like the NY Times in the Pentagon Papers than Daniel Ellsberg?

    Has the Espionage Act changed so much that Wikileaks has breached the threshold to permit prior restraint? It seems to me the thief of the classified secrets is the criminal like Ellsberg and the publisher Wikileaks is more like the Times.

    Can someone explain whats changed?

  4. #22
    Olympic Champ kr1963's Avatar
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    Default Re: WikiLeaks could be vulnerable to Espionage Act

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    The first thing I would ask is why are we bombing yemen. Could it be because they are harboring terrorists and we have a reason to be doing it. What is going on to cause the bombing. I would then say do I need to know that right now, does the general public need to know it right now. Or might that info have hurt the operation and diminished our chances of accomplishing what we need to.

    The court wont have to try and determine his intention he has stated his intention and how he hates America and what it stands for.

    Would you agree that it is not practical for the general public to know everything? Would you also agree that it is in our nations best interest for classified information to stay classified until a time when it is determined that there is no need for it to be classified? Would you then also agree that these leaks are not only potentially dangerous to the U.S and its troops but also harms the diplomatic relations with other nations? If you agree is that not enough to charge this man and send the message?
    You statements are based upon believing that our government is protecting us from something bad. I don't believe that. And you also have to believe that the people running things now are altruistic & thinking about the greater good. I don't buy that either. If either one of those things were true for me I would be in that much more in agreement with what you wrote.

    And even if there were a few enemies in Yemen, is it worth killing innocents for getting them? Is it worth destroying our good name & PR in the eyes of an entire population for the next generation?

    Where has he stated that he "hates America" & what it stands for? Maybe he hates the the imperial actions of a few power & oil hungry men? I know I am not found of the empire building our government engages in, all very hypocritically in the name if exporting democracy.

    I know in running my own business I have trade secrets I do not want known. But the products I sell & produce help people, not harm them. In this case I see that the hidden criminal intent & those who harbor it are the only ones worried about "National Security". Look @ Black Water. That was just disgraceful. Taxpayers were ROBBED.

    In addition, I feel bad for our military personnel cause they are being conned into dying for Exxon & the IMF, not the USA. If those "leaks" bring an end to this very profitable war, so be it. The world will be a better place because of it.

    There is a Midnight Oil song that has the lyrics, "If the real Jesus Christ were alive today, he'd be gunned down cold by the CIA..." & that's because the CIA is an arm of the empire reaching out & doing the dirty work, that if were made public would be shunned. There's your dark side. There's the unseen hand.

  5. #23
    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
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    Default Re: WikiLeaks could be vulnerable to Espionage Act

    Quote Originally Posted by kr1963 View Post
    You statements are based upon believing that our government is protecting us from something bad. I don't believe that. And you also have to believe that the people running things now are altruistic & thinking about the greater good. I don't buy that either. If either one of those things were true for me I would be in that much more in agreement with what you wrote.

    And even if there were a few enemies in Yemen, is it worth killing innocents for getting them? Is it worth destroying our good name & PR in the eyes of an entire population for the next generation?

    Where has he stated that he "hates America" & what it stands for? Maybe he hates the the imperial actions of a few power & oil hungry men? I know I am not found of the empire building our government engages in, all very hypocritically in the name if exporting democracy.

    I know in running my own business I have trade secrets I do not want known. But the products I sell & produce help people, not harm them. In this case I see that the hidden criminal intent & those who harbor it are the only ones worried about "National Security". Look @ Black Water. That was just disgraceful. Taxpayers were ROBBED.

    In addition, I feel bad for our military personnel cause they are being conned into dying for Exxon & the IMF, not the USA. If those "leaks" bring an end to this very profitable war, so be it. The world will be a better place because of it.

    There is a Midnight Oil song that has the lyrics, "If the real Jesus Christ were alive today, he'd be gunned down cold by the CIA..." & that's because the CIA is an arm of the empire reaching out & doing the dirty work, that if were made public would be shunned. There's your dark side. There's the unseen hand.

    I dont have time to be a conspiracy theorist. I know that our government is no where near perfect and the people running it aren't either. But having said that we do a lot of good in this world and living here is a good life. You might not like empire building but it is never going away. As long as we have different societies and and cultures people will and have attempt to create the most powerful nation they can. I dont want to live in a nation that is not attempting to improve itself.

    I look at things with a cynical eye but I also have to look at it with a reasonable eye.

  6. #24

    Default Re: WikiLeaks could be vulnerable to Espionage Act

    Quote Originally Posted by kr1963 View Post
    Do you know who Richard Armitage IS?
    Powell's boy? Hell he has been around so long I will bet that Powell deferred to him a lot! He is a Neo-con big time, served in the State Dept under Reagan & was in the thick of the Iran-contra scandal & then served under Bush Sr. He was not a typical life-long apolitical underling & bureaucrat that resides inside the beltway. He was & is a part of the machine.

    He was a part of the Project for the New American Century, (PNAC) a neo-con "think tank" (headed by the likes of World Bank President Paul Wolfowitz) which wrote the now infamous Rebuilding America's Defenses letter where in it states:

    THIS 3 years before 9/11.

    And you are talking about a guy who was not only linked to organized crime but also to covert ops that funneled drug sale monies in Asia to fund political assassinations. I could on but hopefully that is enough to make anyone see that he isn't clean & that he had an agenda. The stuff he has done is far worse then anything Wikileaks has done but the guy has many distinguished service medals. Go figure.
    I don't know why you keep giving me Armitage's bio, I know who he is . He was #2 at State while Powell was #1.

    When you say the Bush administration leaked Plame's name, I disagree with that formulation.

    Can we say that the Obama administration leaked classified secrets to Assange because the soldier served during Obama's tenure?

  7. #25
    Olympic Champ kr1963's Avatar
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    Default Re: WikiLeaks could be vulnerable to Espionage Act

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    I dont have time to be a conspiracy theorist. I know that our government is no where near perfect and the people running it aren't either. But having said that we do a lot of good in this world and living here is a good life. You might not like empire building but it is never going away. As long as we have different societies and and cultures people will and have attempt to create the most powerful nation they can. I dont want to live in a nation that is not attempting to improve itself.

    I look at things with a cynical eye but I also have to look at it with a reasonable eye.
    I think the "empire-building" can be stopped, must be stopped & will be stopped. Improving life is one thing. Giving loans to 3rd world countries & then burdening them with loans so heavy in interest that they can't help their own people & have to GIVE AWAY their own resources, IS NOT HELP. It is a COVERT take over in which bribery of the heads of state plays a big part.

    You said I dont have time to be a conspiracy theorist. What are you taking about here?

  8. #26
    Olympic Champ kr1963's Avatar
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    Default Re: WikiLeaks could be vulnerable to Espionage Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Flop The Nuts View Post
    I don't know why you keep giving me Armitage's bio, I know who he is . He was #2 at State while Powell was #1.

    When you say the Bush administration leaked Plame's name, I disagree with that formulation.

    Can we say that the Obama administration leaked classified secrets to Assange because the soldier served during Obama's tenure?
    Armitage was a little more then just the #2 guy @ the State Dept Doug. The DOD contractors need a war to continue in order to keep their empire building & profits UP. When some guy showed that one of the main reasons for being in Iraq was a lie he got hit. That's what these guys do. Armitage admitted he was the guy who did this 4 years ago.

    Miller is another member of the Institute think tank crowd, (the Manhattan Institute is a conservative group that gives out accolades like the Alexander Hamilton award, to people like Rudi Guiliani). If you don't think that there is a SPIN on her piece, guess again.

    In bringing up Obama please don't make this a left/right thing as that's not why I am talking about this. For me it is an issue of discovering what OUR government is doing that is illegal or morally repugnant. I think Armitage did it to a guy who was stepping on the toes of the power elite who are benefiting from an endless war.

    It will be interesting to see who leaked it. Whether it was a bureaucrat or someone in Obama's administration. That should speak whetherit was politically motivated or not. Obama said he would get us out of Iraq. I told all my freinds & family on the left that that AIN'T happening. So far I am right & those cables are showing that under Obama we are escalating things. WW III anyone?

    Thanks PM for bringing up Ellsberg as I feel that he was a big influence to helping us end the Vietnam War. The Pentagon Papers certainly spelled out that someone was making money off of that event while people died.

  9. #27

    Default Re: WikiLeaks could be vulnerable to Espionage Act

    I'm not really trying to continue the argument here, but you say you want to move past the right/left thing, then you continue to state that Armitage was a neo-con and Miller is a conservative. Miller worked for The Progressive, NPR, The New York Times, and now Fox News.

    Anyway, a great book on the CIA is by Tim Weiner, here: http://www.amazon.com/Legacy-Ashes-H...2446312&sr=8-1

    An amazing book, highly recommended.

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