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Thread: God Is Responsible

  1. #28
    Ancient Arachnid Spider's Avatar
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    Default Re: God Is Responsible

    Sparky, if God exists, I believe that your explanation is the closest to the truth. Some of my posts have pointed in this direction, but you said it better than I ever did.
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  2. #29

    Default Re: God Is Responsible

    Coachsparky, I have a couple of questions.

    To most people god/God is an entity with a personality who created and rules the universe. Since it seems you view god/God as merely the "laws of physics" + "nature" (to include human life) then why do you make any reference to a god/God at all? It seems to me you would just claim there is no god/God as the word is generally used and then argue from the position you just posted.

    Also, did you not post in the past that you are a "Christian"? How does your position of god/God square with the organized faith of Christianity?

    Lastly, please don't perceive that I am attempting to box you in; I am genuinely interested in your view.

  3. #30

    Default Re: God Is Responsible

    Quote Originally Posted by Spider View Post
    M, you've seen things much more terrible than I can imagine. Still, I'll play the devil's advocate here - all too appropriate for an atheist. I agree with Ugly. Those who believe in God will argue that man has the ability to do wonderful kindnesses or horrible cruelty. It is his choice and God does not intervene in man's free will. Now natural disasters ("acts of God"), well they're a little harder to explain.
    At the time, I did my absolute best to kill the humans involved - and would again tomorrow. Now I am faced with a god that isn't willing to intervene? Bullsh1t. I spent 16 months intervening - I have friends who's names are on that wall in D.C. who gave their lives intervening. PM-01 spent a career here on the streets intervening. If god can't be bothered, I can't be bothered with him. I'm still too busy intervening.

    That sounds angry - sorry. I am not angry at you. But this only happened 40 years ago and I still get angry when I think about what people do to other people. Working at a prison probably doesn't help my overall view of humanity, either.

    R.I.P. Cyrano and Roxanne.

  4. #31

    Default Re: God Is Responsible

    MRichardson, like Spider, I have not seen the horrors you have seen. I do, however, have some experience with the dark side of humanity as well- I have done some prison work in the past, and I currently work in treatment centers for violent children and youth. My understanding it that God works precisely through people such as yourself and pm01; God gives people the compassion to care about humanity's victimes and also gives us the strength, courage and skills to intervene.

    (PS I don't expect to change your mind, that's just how I see things. And thank you for your service.)

  5. #32

    Default Re: God Is Responsible

    Quote Originally Posted by pm01 View Post
    Coachsparky, I have a couple of questions.

    To most people god/God is an entity with a personality who created and rules the universe. Since it seems you view god/God as merely the "laws of physics" + "nature" (to include human life) then why do you make any reference to a god/God at all? It seems to me you would just claim there is no god/God as the word is generally used and then argue from the position you just posted.

    Also, did you not post in the past that you are a "Christian"? How does your position of god/God square with the organized faith of Christianity?

    Lastly, please don't perceive that I am attempting to box you in; I am genuinely interested in your view.
    PM, let me start with the fact that I am a Christian. I belief that the man Jesus existed and led an exemplary life as a somewhat unorthodox Jewish Rabbi/teacher. His impact on society is both unparalleled by any other single human being and very positive as he changed the whole way people looked at God from a vengeful warrior God to a loving fatherly figure. His influence even goes to modern day Judaism. I am a follower of his teachings and therefore I am a Christian.

    Secondly, just because "most" people believe one thing about God does not make it true and does not give them ownership of the word. My knowledge that God is not an entity at all but is the incredible creative energy that has coexisted with the matter and energy of the Universe for all eternity leads me to identify It, God, as what It is. I am filled with awe in the knowledge that I have been blessed with. It is not merely anything, it is a powerful truth that God exists and It is available to all even when here in the Earthly realm. When we pass, we all rejoin It. Therefore it makes complete sense to call it God and not argue against it.
    Last edited by coachsparky; 12-13-2010 at 12:51 PM.

  6. #33

    Default Re: God Is Responsible

    Quote Originally Posted by arm-spin View Post
    MRichardson, like Spider, I have not seen the horrors you have seen. I do, however, have some experience with the dark side of humanity as well- I have done some prison work in the past, and I currently work in treatment centers for violent children and youth. My understanding it that God works precisely through people such as yourself and pm01; God gives people the compassion to care about humanity's victims and also gives us the strength, courage and skills to intervene.

    (PS I don't expect to change your mind, that's just how I see things. And thank you for your service.)
    You don't have to have been in a war zone to have seen the cruelty that man subjects his fellows to. All of you, if your eyes are open, have seen it. If you have worked in prisons and are working with disturbed children, then I know you have seen it. If a god is allowing a child of 12 to be pimped out, or a ten year old girl to be passed from brother to brother (and then to their friends), or beaten every time the folks get enough booze in them - or don't get enough - I don't need that god. And I surely am not going to worship a god like that. I have more respect for the Flying Spaghetti Monster and Scott's porch-dwelling dragon. God doesn't move me to "do good". I act out of enlightened self-interest. The better off all members of society are, the better off am I. Besides, it makes me feel good.
    It would make me feel even better if I could offer my own version of a religious enlightenment to the parents of those abused kids - Like Paul on the road to Damascus, I would love to see them knocked off their a$$, but I suspect that the state of California would take a dim view of my methods of conversion.

    R.I.P. Cyrano and Roxanne.

  7. #34
    Olympic Champ kr1963's Avatar
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    Default Re: God Is Responsible

    That method doesn't really work anyways as the person didn't come to it on their own determinism.

    When I discovered that I had cancer, one of the things I did was to look @ what I was doing to create the cancer & what I was in agreement with that made it ok for me to be in this condition. I find that no matter the plight, looking @ taking a little more responsibility is always the answer.

  8. #35

    Default Re: God Is Responsible

    Quote Originally Posted by Spider View Post
    I don't get it - never have, never will. If the burned baby is in heaven and saved, why is it considered a tragedy instead of a reason for celebration?

    Because even when a person goes to heaven, their physical suffering before they die is still real. So is the sense of loss their family feels. However, a lot of Christian funerals do have a sense of joy about them because they believe the person is now in a better place.

    Does God answer prayers? I believe so, though usually in non-miraculous ways. There are several occurences in my life I consider answers to prayers. but none which violate the laws of physics in any way.
    First off spider how can you answer in the affirmative that you believe God answers prayers when I am nearly certain that I have seen you state that you are an atheist?

    Secondly, I do not believe that God interacts in any way in the day to day going ons any where in the Universe so I obviously do not believe It, God, answers prayers. I do however believe in prayer and believe the real purpose of prayer is self improvement. That when you are praying you are really working out issues that need to be addressed in a way that allows you to separate yourself from some of it.
    Last edited by coachsparky; 12-13-2010 at 04:51 PM.

  9. #36
    Ancient Arachnid Spider's Avatar
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    Default Re: God Is Responsible

    Quote Originally Posted by coachsparky View Post
    First off spider how can you answer in the affirmative that you believe God answers prayers when I am nearly certain that I have seen you state that you are an atheist?
    The first sentence of that post (in italics) was mine. The rest was Arm-spin's answer. Somehow it was posted as being all from me. Look at the bottom of the post (#18 in this thread) where it says:

    Last edited by arm-spin; 12-09-2010 at 08:23 PM.

    I am indeed an atheist and do not believe that God exists, or at least does not exist in a form that would respond to human prayer.
    Last edited by Spider; 12-13-2010 at 08:08 PM.
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