Originally Posted by FloggingSully

Didn't God create the devil and man knowing full well that they would create all that bad (being all-knowing and all). So really, God created both good and bad, he just uses middle-men for the bad.

If you want to debate this topic start another thread. I will be happy to discuss it with you, but I dont want to hijack this thread.

Originally Posted by Spider

The law of the land supercedes unbridled freedom of religion. Otherwise, any lawbreaker could claim that his act was condoned by his religion. Faith healers are not licensed medical practitioners. Adults may feel free to utilize them for themselves, but they may not rely upon them for treatment of minors in their care in place of proper medical treatment.

I agree with this statement but we enter into a slippery slope when we go the other way & give medical practitioners any sort of power to decision if someone is being abusive. In Florida we have the BAKER ACT where psychiatrists can declare that you are unstable & need to be committed. Cases have shown that once this has happened the Baker Acted person is drugged against their will & it takes MONTHS to get the person out.

Originally Posted by Spider

As far as the church serving wine to minors, I'd be happy as can be if they were prosecuted. As an alternative, though, maybe the law should be amended that minors may receive half an ounce of wine no more than once a week. This would also get Jewish families who give the kids a sip at Passover off the hook.

Growing up my father let me have a sip of beer once. It tasted so foul that I never wanted to drink it, until was 18 I had moved to Europe! Prosecuting that is a bit ridiculous as far as I am concerned.

Originally Posted by Spider

Use of illegal drugs in religious services? Probably not strictly legal, but perhaps the government chooses not to exert its power on an Indian reservation. If they were giving crack cocaine to young children, though, it would be a different story.

Agreed but you always have to look @ who is defining legal/illegal activities. Most of the time it is common sense that dictates it but there are those rare times where a vested interests make a decision to squash a minority group they want to take advantage of.

Originally Posted by quinn14

I am not trying to cop out when I give you this answer, just read it and take it for what it is.

There is no way to know what the kill ratio for prayer is, because we don't know how many times it works. All we hear about is when it doesn't work. Can you honestly think of a story in the local paper where someone was healed by faith? It isn't reported because the people who choose to use this method are not looking for praise from the public. If they were to report it working, people would tell them that they are ridiculous and give some other explanation for it.

One reason you don't know or don't hear about it is because MDs operate under STANDARD OF CARE. If a MD does what is considered SOC even if the patient dies SOC can protect them against a lawsuit as they can say I was just doing what everyone else is doing.

When I consulted MDs RE my cancer I had several of them tell me that I had a 4 out of 5 "chance" in surviving. That means that 20% of their patients they expect to die. And some do die but not from the cancer but from the treatment. My mother had ovarian cancer 2 years ago & they said they cured her of that but then she died of a heart attack after the surgery. Wtf.

Btw in my religion we say that there are 4 valid forms of therapy: 1) Nutrition; 2) A change of environment; 3) Counseling; 4) Education.

If a parishioner gets sick they are told to go see a Medical Practitioner, (of their own choice) YET simultaneously continue to get counseling and/or study. In considering that you are a spirit with a body you address BOTH. It has been demonstrated that a person heals faster physically if you address them on a mental/emotional/spiritual level as well. I am living proof of that, (so far).

I realize that. It is what the FDA uses to go after MDs who don't use chemo or radiation to treat cancer.