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Thread: Pennsylvania couple on trial in prayer death of ill son, 2

  1. #19

    Default Re: Pennsylvania couple on trial in prayer death of ill son, 2

    Actually, I firmly support the right of the Muslim congregation to build there - I just think it is poor taste. As for the argument at hand, I am torn. I really believe that people should be allowed to make their own mistakes and suffer the consequences. However, I don't believe that two-year olds should have to suffer the consequences of their parents' mistakes.
    Religious choices become particularly difficult. As an atheist, I try to bend over backwards to protect the religious freedoms of those who do believe (just as I struggle to protect myself FROM religion). As a parent, and as a human being, I have to draw the line when the religious beliefs of the parent harm the child. I am not sure I can logically and/or legally defend my position - but viscerally, I know it is wrong.

    R.I.P. Cyrano and Roxanne.

  2. #20

    Default Re: Pennsylvania couple on trial in prayer death of ill son, 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Ground&Pound View Post
    I sure hope all of you folks invoking the Constitution and Freedom of Religion are outraged that some people are trying to block the Ground Zero Mosque.
    It ought to go without saying with me. After all, I'm "Mr. PC" on wrestling forums.
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  3. #21

    Default Re: Pennsylvania couple on trial in prayer death of ill son, 2

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    In the Christian religion all good is from god all bad comes from the devil and man.
    Didn't God create the devil and man knowing full well that they would create all that bad (being all-knowing and all). So really, God created both good and bad, he just uses middle-men for the bad.
    There's no such thing as a pretty good aligator wrestler.

  4. #22
    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pennsylvania couple on trial in prayer death of ill son, 2

    Quote Originally Posted by FloggingSully View Post
    Didn't God create the devil and man knowing full well that they would create all that bad (being all-knowing and all). So really, God created both good and bad, he just uses middle-men for the bad.
    If you want to debate this topic start another thread. I will be happy to discuss it with you, but I dont want to hijack this thread.

  5. #23
    Olympic Champ kr1963's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pennsylvania couple on trial in prayer death of ill son, 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Spider View Post
    The law of the land supercedes unbridled freedom of religion. Otherwise, any lawbreaker could claim that his act was condoned by his religion. Faith healers are not licensed medical practitioners. Adults may feel free to utilize them for themselves, but they may not rely upon them for treatment of minors in their care in place of proper medical treatment.
    I agree with this statement but we enter into a slippery slope when we go the other way & give medical practitioners any sort of power to decision if someone is being abusive. In Florida we have the BAKER ACT where psychiatrists can declare that you are unstable & need to be committed. Cases have shown that once this has happened the Baker Acted person is drugged against their will & it takes MONTHS to get the person out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spider View Post
    As far as the church serving wine to minors, I'd be happy as can be if they were prosecuted. As an alternative, though, maybe the law should be amended that minors may receive half an ounce of wine no more than once a week. This would also get Jewish families who give the kids a sip at Passover off the hook.
    Growing up my father let me have a sip of beer once. It tasted so foul that I never wanted to drink it, until was 18 I had moved to Europe! Prosecuting that is a bit ridiculous as far as I am concerned.


    Quote Originally Posted by Spider View Post
    Use of illegal drugs in religious services? Probably not strictly legal, but perhaps the government chooses not to exert its power on an Indian reservation. If they were giving crack cocaine to young children, though, it would be a different story.
    Agreed but you always have to look @ who is defining legal/illegal activities. Most of the time it is common sense that dictates it but there are those rare times where a vested interests make a decision to squash a minority group they want to take advantage of.

  6. #24
    Ancient Arachnid Spider's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pennsylvania couple on trial in prayer death of ill son, 2

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    If you want to debate this topic start another thread. I will be happy to discuss it with you, but I dont want to hijack this thread.
    Thread created. You're welcome.
    Atrophy: what you get when you win atournament.

  7. #25
    Olympic Champ kr1963's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pennsylvania couple on trial in prayer death of ill son, 2

    Quote Originally Posted by quinn14 View Post
    I am not trying to cop out when I give you this answer, just read it and take it for what it is.

    There is no way to know what the kill ratio for prayer is, because we don't know how many times it works. All we hear about is when it doesn't work. Can you honestly think of a story in the local paper where someone was healed by faith? It isn't reported because the people who choose to use this method are not looking for praise from the public. If they were to report it working, people would tell them that they are ridiculous and give some other explanation for it.

    One reason you don't know or don't hear about it is because MDs operate under STANDARD OF CARE. If a MD does what is considered SOC even if the patient dies SOC can protect them against a lawsuit as they can say I was just doing what everyone else is doing.

    When I consulted MDs RE my cancer I had several of them tell me that I had a 4 out of 5 "chance" in surviving. That means that 20% of their patients they expect to die. And some do die but not from the cancer but from the treatment. My mother had ovarian cancer 2 years ago & they said they cured her of that but then she died of a heart attack after the surgery. Wtf.

    Btw in my religion we say that there are 4 valid forms of therapy: 1) Nutrition; 2) A change of environment; 3) Counseling; 4) Education.

    If a parishioner gets sick they are told to go see a Medical Practitioner, (of their own choice) YET simultaneously continue to get counseling and/or study. In considering that you are a spirit with a body you address BOTH. It has been demonstrated that a person heals faster physically if you address them on a mental/emotional/spiritual level as well. I am living proof of that, (so far).

  8. #26
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    Default Re: Pennsylvania couple on trial in prayer death of ill son, 2

    Quote Originally Posted by kr1963 View Post
    One reason you don't know or don't hear about it is because MDs operate under STANDARD OF CARE. If a MD does what is considered SOC even if the patient dies SOC can protect them against a lawsuit as they can say I was just doing what everyone else is doing.
    That's because even when a doctor does everything right, the results aren't always what one would hope for. The standard of care is a way to evaluate if the treatment was correct and if the doctor acted properly, regardless of the outcome. It can be used to exonerate a doctor or to convict one.
    Atrophy: what you get when you win atournament.

  9. #27
    Olympic Champ kr1963's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pennsylvania couple on trial in prayer death of ill son, 2

    I realize that. It is what the FDA uses to go after MDs who don't use chemo or radiation to treat cancer.

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