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Thread: Psychology vs Free will vs no Free will

  1. #19

    Default Re: Psychology vs Free will vs no Free will

    For example, I never ate pizza or McDonalds until I came to America. So, until I was 14 years old I never felt like I was missing out on those particular foods.

    Do you now eat pizza and McDonald's because of the advertisements, or because it tastes good.

    Advertising is meant to influence - I don't see how anyone can deny that. But there is a significant decision between influence and control. It's comical that fat people blame commercials for the fact that they are chunky and weak-willed.

  2. #20
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    Default Re: Psychology vs Free will vs no Free will

    Quote Originally Posted by Flop The Nuts View Post
    For example, I never ate pizza or McDonalds until I came to America. So, until I was 14 years old I never felt like I was missing out on those particular foods.

    Do you now eat pizza and McDonald's because of the advertisements, or because it tastes good.

    Advertising is meant to influence - I don't see how anyone can deny that. But there is a significant decision between influence and control. It's comical that fat people blame commercials for the fact that they are chunky and weak-willed.
    It was just an example to make a point that people don't really require certain things and they get the urge after they see it or hear about it. I never imagined burgers and fries and pizzas as something that I would love to have in my life. But, when I constantly see these food places around me, I get the urge to have some food there.

  3. #21
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    Default Re: Psychology vs Free will vs no Free will

    Let me use another example. The best way to learn a language is by actually living where that language is used by people everyday. Your environment to a large extent defines who you become. See I have lived in America for more than half of my life. No native born English teacher in Russia can speak English as well as I do even though that is their career while to me it is just a way to communicate.

  4. #22
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    Default Re: Psychology vs Free will vs no Free will

    Quote Originally Posted by Flop The Nuts View Post
    Do you now eat pizza and McDonald's because of the advertisements, or because it tastes good.

    Advertising is meant to influence - I don't see how anyone can deny that. But there is a significant decision between influence and control. It's comical that fat people blame commercials for the fact that they are chunky and weak-willed.
    It's not an either/or proposition. The effect of advertisements are undeniable. That doesn't mean people are "controlled" but they certainly are influenced. The fast food industry (just to cite one example) pays big bucks to think tanks who frame the argument just as you have. Childhood obesity is up over 300% in the last 30 years. It doesn't follow that children or their parents are "weak-willed".

    I agree with Big's last two arguments.

  5. #23

    Default Re: Psychology vs Free will vs no Free will

    Quote Originally Posted by matclone View Post
    It's not an either/or proposition. The effect of advertisements are undeniable. That doesn't mean people are "controlled" but they certainly are influenced. The fast food industry (just to cite one example) pays big bucks to think tanks who frame the argument just as you have. Childhood obesity is up over 300% in the last 30 years. It doesn't follow that children or their parents are "weak-willed".

    I agree with Big's last two arguments.
    I have a 2 1/2 yo and a 1 yo at home. If either of them gets fat within the next 12 to 15 years because they have eaten too much fast food, it's not the fault of the fast food chain or the advertising agencies. It will be primarily my (and my wife's) fault. Childhood obesity occurs because parents aren't involved enough in their children's lives. If the parents would get their fat butts out of the drive-through lane once in a while, and learn how to turn on their oven, we might not have so many fat-arses in second grade.

    A large percentage of the problems in the U.S. would go away if parents acted like parents again, instead of trying to be "cool parents".

  6. #24
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    Default Re: Psychology vs Free will vs no Free will

    Did the parents not learn to be "cool" through advertisement? All those commercials of what "cool" parents do......

  7. #25

    Default Re: Psychology vs Free will vs no Free will

    Quote Originally Posted by matclone View Post
    It's not an either/or proposition. The effect of advertisements are undeniable. That doesn't mean people are "controlled" but they certainly are influenced. The fast food industry (just to cite one example) pays big bucks to think tanks who frame the argument just as you have. Childhood obesity is up over 300% in the last 30 years. It doesn't follow that children or their parents are "weak-willed".

    I agree with Big's last two arguments.

    A weak will on the part of the parents and the child certainly do make sense here. If those are not causes of increased childhood obesity, then what is? Fast food was also offered 30 years ago. Your argument doesn't make sense.

    To get to the bottom of that issue, one must look at how the child eats and exercises. Just on the consumption aspect, there are only 2 primary parties that put food in the child's mouth -- 1) the child 2) the parent who provides the child with everything needed for life. If that child is too fat, the parent is being negligent and the child is either doing the same or doesn't know better, also a fault of the parent.

    As for Big's quote by Freud, I think Freud was off base here. In seeking what makes you happy, you will find happiness. If you think for yourself and determine what make you happy for yourself, you will not be influenced by these outside pressures, since you are already happy. Those who are easily influenced find happiness in simply being influenced, or perhaps they aren't sure what would make them happy. but, if you are thinking for yourself (something I highly recommend), you will not be tempted and you will not feel outside pressures of influence. Freud just dug himeslf a big hole.

    In any case, I think free will is the only way to go because it gives the greatest freedom to the greatest number. I don't pretent to know everything or to know what is best for other people -- I can only know what is best for me. I wouldn't want anyone else's plan for me to be imposed on me andI wouldn't want that for anyone else, either.

  8. #26
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    Default Re: Psychology vs Free will vs no Free will

    Quote Originally Posted by Flop The Nuts View Post
    I have a 2 1/2 yo and a 1 yo at home. If either of them gets fat within the next 12 to 15 years because they have eaten too much fast food, it's not the fault of the fast food chain or the advertising agencies. It will be primarily my (and my wife's) fault. Childhood obesity occurs because parents aren't involved enough in their children's lives. If the parents would get their fat butts out of the drive-through lane once in a while, and learn how to turn on their oven, we might not have so many fat-arses in second grade.
    Good for you. But you only parent two. How will you influence the millions of other parents to do the right thing? Or is that not your problem? The fast food industry is definitely interested in influencing parents.

    I suggested before that blame isn't an either/or proposition. Apparently you disagree.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flop The Nuts View Post
    A large percentage of the problems in the U.S. would go away if parents acted like parents again, instead of trying to be "cool parents".
    And if they don't?

    If you're the President, do you (a) ignore the enormous increase in obesity and its attendant problems (primarily health); (b) publically admonish parents to "get their act together"; (c) take any other measures in addition to, or instead of, (b)?

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    Default Re: Psychology vs Free will vs no Free will

    Quote Originally Posted by skipster View Post
    Fast food was also offered 30 years ago.
    It's presence was not nearly as great as today. You are false in your presentation as usual. Also, there is a lag effect.

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