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Thread: Alternative approach to schools in USA

  1. #19

    Default Re: Alternative approach to schools in USA

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    Wow I had to take a moment of silence, we agree.
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  2. #20

    Default Re: Alternative approach to schools in USA

    Being still in high school, there are sides to this that I don't fully understand. I do agree with some of the points you make about the schools not really encouraging excellence very often, though. I think your ideas are a bit drastic but some would probably be good. One thing I wanted to ask is why do you think we should be taught Chinese?

  3. #21
    Redshirt zmanc's Avatar
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    Default Re: Alternative approach to schools in USA

    Quote Originally Posted by ban basketball View Post
    My comment isn't so directed toward the school's structure, but rather toward your basic premise: that U.S. schools are performing poorly. Test scores have been rising quite significantly for several years.

    This is still one of the most unresearched myths that we still hold onto in our society today.

    http://www.thejournal.com/articles/22841/
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...062401322.html
    ban- you are only comparing the United States to itself. Hopefully we can all agree that the world as a whole is improving. I sure hope that we would not stagnate. I am not arguing that we are not improving, but where we are sitting in the world arena. Look at the levels our students are performing at. PISA tests all across the world, that is where I am getting that we are failing our students.

    The following countries rank higher then United States and in the following order.

    1 Finaland
    2 Hong Kong - China
    3 Canada
    4 Chinese -Taipei
    5 Estonia
    6 Japan
    7 New Zealand
    8 Australia
    9 Netherlands
    10Liechtenstein
    11 Korea
    12 Slovenia
    13 Germany
    14 United Kingdom
    15 Czech Replublic
    16 Switzerland
    17 Macao-China
    18 Austria
    19 Belgium
    20 Ireland
    21 Hungary
    22 Sweeden
    23 Poland
    24 Denmark
    25 France
    26 Croatia
    27 Iceland
    28 Latvia
    29 United States


    So when you talk to me about un-researched myths I am a little insulted considering I am writing an academic paper for college and am actually citing more then news publications.

    Full article here

    http://www.pisa.oecd.org/document/2/..._1_1_1,00.html
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by zmanc; 11-13-2008 at 05:21 PM. Reason: Forgot link
    "If Thomas Jefferson thought taxation without representation was bad, he should see how it is with representation." appropriate words from Maha Rushie himself.:walkman:

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  4. #22
    Redshirt zmanc's Avatar
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    Default Re: Alternative approach to schools in USA

    Quote Originally Posted by rich1990 View Post
    Being still in high school, there are sides to this that I don't fully understand. I do agree with some of the points you make about the schools not really encouraging excellence very often, though. I think your ideas are a bit drastic but some would probably be good. One thing I wanted to ask is why do you think we should be taught Chinese?
    Why Chinese is a good question, there are several reasons, China is one of the fastest growing super powers. And being the most spoken language in the world,

    The following numbers are a little old (from 1999) but I was trying to hurry to post before class.

    • Chinese* (937,132,000) (* The totals given for Chinese, Arabic, and French include more than one SIL variety)
    • Spanish (332,000,000)
    • English (322,000,000)
    • Bengali (189,000,000)
    • Hindi/Urdu (182,000,000)
    • Arabic* (174,950,000)
    • Portuguese (170,000,000)
    • Russian (170,000,000)
    • Japanese (125,000,000)
    • German (98,000,000)
    • French* (79,572,000)

    I figured it would be a great choice since so many people speak it and it is going to be one of the biggest super powers in the near future. Based on popularity is also why Spanish is a tertiary language for the school.
    "If Thomas Jefferson thought taxation without representation was bad, he should see how it is with representation." appropriate words from Maha Rushie himself.:walkman:

    "Expect great things"

    "Now you may not like this and it might sting but you are exactly where you want to be, you have thought yourself into the situation you are in now and even if you don't like it, it is exactly where you truly want to be because that is exactly what you think about." Dr. David Pietsch

    "Live as if"

  5. #23
    World Champ ODH's Avatar
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    Default Re: Alternative approach to schools in USA

    I disagree with the logic of teaching Chinese. Chinese is only spoken in China. English is spoken around the world. Chinese know that they have to learn English to compete in the global marketplace.

    I think Americans should be fluent in another language, but it really does not matter what one it is. Chinese is exceedingly hard for an native Engliosh speaker to learn and there already is a large Chinese Amercian community who are fluent Chinese speakers.

  6. #24

    Default Re: Alternative approach to schools in USA

    Quote Originally Posted by zmanc View Post
    ban- you are only comparing the United States to itself. Hopefully we can all agree that the world as a whole is improving. I sure hope that we would not stagnate. I am not arguing that we are not improving, but where we are sitting in the world arena. Look at the levels our students are performing at. PISA tests all across the world, that is where I am getting that we are failing our students.

    The following countries rank higher then United States and in the following order.

    1 Finaland
    2 Hong Kong - China
    3 Canada
    4 Chinese -Taipei
    5 Estonia
    6 Japan
    7 New Zealand
    8 Australia
    9 Netherlands
    10Liechtenstein
    11 Korea
    12 Slovenia
    13 Germany
    14 United Kingdom
    15 Czech Replublic
    16 Switzerland
    17 Macao-China
    18 Austria
    19 Belgium
    20 Ireland
    21 Hungary
    22 Sweeden
    23 Poland
    24 Denmark
    25 France
    26 Croatia
    27 Iceland
    28 Latvia
    29 United States


    So when you talk to me about un-researched myths I am a little insulted considering I am writing an academic paper for college and am actually citing more then news publications.

    Full article here

    http://www.pisa.oecd.org/document/2/0,3343,en_322523
    51_32236191_39718850_1_1_1_1,00.html

    I stand corrected, and apologize. You did clearly state initially, "in relation to the world."

    However, I tend to take the optimist view in this regard and see and appreciate the improvements that we are making here. Not so long ago, test scores were dismal in the U.S.
    UNI Panthers...Because it's just right.

  7. #25

    Default Re: Alternative approach to schools in USA

    Just to add some to the conversation. If i remember correctly some of the countries that are above the US on the list posted early only test a percentage of their population. That percentage is usually the smarter kids. Here in the US we test everyone in your school systems.

    I can't remember where I read this because it was about 3 or 4 years ago. Hopefully later I can find the source and post it.

    Anyway it is just something to think about.

  8. #26
    World Champ ODH's Avatar
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    Default Re: Alternative approach to schools in USA

    Quote Originally Posted by Chance174 View Post
    Just to add some to the conversation. If i remember correctly some of the countries that are above the US on the list posted early only test a percentage of their population. That percentage is usually the smarter kids. Here in the US we test everyone in your school systems.

    I can't remember where I read this because it was about 3 or 4 years ago. Hopefully later I can find the source and post it.

    Anyway it is just something to think about.
    Good point. The other thing to think about is that many of those countries are homogenous, meaning they do not have the issues with immigrants who are not fluent in the native language, or inner city minorities that have been left behind.
    Also notice that most of those countries have a much smaller population than the US. The countries we are sweating about taking away our good jobs..India and China are not on the list, niether is Russia, Brazil, Indonesia
    which I think with the US are the six most populous countries in the world.

  9. #27
    Redshirt zmanc's Avatar
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    Default Re: Alternative approach to schools in USA

    Quote Originally Posted by ODH View Post
    Good point. The other thing to think about is that many of those countries are homogenous, meaning they do not have the issues with immigrants who are not fluent in the native language, or inner city minorities that have been left behind.
    Also notice that most of those countries have a much smaller population than the US. The countries we are sweating about taking away our good jobs..India and China are not on the list, niether is Russia, Brazil, Indonesia
    which I think with the US are the six most populous countries in the world.
    China is on the list, they are grouping HK and Mainland together.
    "If Thomas Jefferson thought taxation without representation was bad, he should see how it is with representation." appropriate words from Maha Rushie himself.:walkman:

    "Expect great things"

    "Now you may not like this and it might sting but you are exactly where you want to be, you have thought yourself into the situation you are in now and even if you don't like it, it is exactly where you truly want to be because that is exactly what you think about." Dr. David Pietsch

    "Live as if"

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