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Thread: Alternative approach to schools in USA

  1. #10

    Default Re: Alternative approach to schools in USA

    My comment isn't so directed toward the school's structure, but rather toward your basic premise: that U.S. schools are performing poorly. Test scores have been rising quite significantly for several years.

    This is still one of the most unresearched myths that we still hold onto in our society today.

    http://www.thejournal.com/articles/22841/
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...062401322.html
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  2. #11
    Olympic Champ r.payton@att.net's Avatar
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    Default Re: Alternative approach to schools in USA

    Quote Originally Posted by zmanc View Post
    There is not discipline in the schools here. One of the few forms of discipline, suspension, that was left has now turned into a joke. Suspension is now a excused absence in MPLS Public schools, meaning that you do something bad you get some free vacation, get to come back and make up all your homework and/or tests.



    Throughout my life the teachers I loved most employed the Socratic method, small classes help a lot but so does discipline.




    Less distractions, more parental involvement, two keys to their success in my opinion.



    We spend more then 1/3 of the year on vacations from school, no wonder we are ranked in the 20's



    r.payton, we both know that the system needs to change and while societal changes are needed do you feel that if worked on little by little the society will catch on?
    No-the elite do not care -their kids go to great schools and learn because one day they will be given the keys to the kingdom . The rest of us can rot for all they care . A fascinating book entitled ''In Defense of Elitism '' spells out , in great detail, how and why these people feel they are entitled to run the world . Do I agree -no-but my opinion matters so little as to be beyond belief .

  3. #12
    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
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    Default Re: Alternative approach to schools in USA

    I would not let my kid stay at a school all week and then come home on the weekends. Kids need discipline and encouragement at home. They need to feel safe and secure in what is expected of them and they will succeed. In poor areas education suffers because there is little parental involvement and a lack of discipline at home. Add to that the high rate of fatherless homes only adds to their failure.

    That only deals with low income areas. Another big problem is lack of parental support for the school and educator's. It baffles me how we got to this place where kids do nothing wrong. It is almost as if parents don't remember their youth and what douchebags they were. I have seen on multiple occasions parents try to cover for kids or take the kids side when the kid is wrong. If your kid doesn't do his homework and fails it is not the teachers fault, hold the kid accountable. teachers and administrators should not have to worry more about getting sued or a bad review for failing someone as much as they should be about teaching.

    The last thing I see, is the teachers union. I dont think it is the union itself but more the complacency and job security it gives teachers. Their is little incentive, unless it is self motivation for a teacher to be great. It is hard to fire crap teachers and harder to hire good ones because they dont want to work with crap. Teachers should be retained based on their performance. How are they doing at teaching the subject. Are they just handing out tests and reading assignments or are they teaching.

    One last personal note. Teachers should not have to have a teaching certificate. Instead they should teach in the area of their degree. History majors teach history, Match, Math and so on. It is total bunk for them to be teaching biology with an art degree.

  4. #13

    Default Re: Alternative approach to schools in USA

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    The last thing I see, is the teachers union. I dont think it is the union itself but more the complacency and job security it gives teachers.
    Unions give no security from poor performance whatsoever. Contracts are renewed annually. If you have bad reviews consistently, you're gone.

    Unions only provide security against contract violations.
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  5. #14
    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
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    Default Re: Alternative approach to schools in USA

    Quote Originally Posted by ban basketball View Post
    Unions give no security from poor performance whatsoever. Contracts are renewed annually. If you have bad reviews consistently, you're gone.

    Unions only provide security against contract violations.
    It depends on the local teachers union. They have differing rules from place to place. It is my opinion that this union breeds complacency.

    I am surprised this is the only thing you disagreed with

  6. #15

    Default Re: Alternative approach to schools in USA

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    It depends on the local teachers union. They have differing rules from place to place. It is my opinion that this union breeds complacency.

    I am surprised this is the only thing you disagreed with
    You could be right concerning unions. In Iowa, teachers, aside from those who have tenure, are very accountable to good performance. Unions will help you none if you do a bad job.

    That was the only area where I took the time to disagree with. In all honesty, I don't fell that strongly about the topic and the issues raised (aside from the incorrect premise that our schools are failing. They ARE improving).
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  7. #16
    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
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    Default Re: Alternative approach to schools in USA

    Quote Originally Posted by ban basketball View Post
    You could be right concerning unions. In Iowa, teachers, aside from those who have tenure, are very accountable to good performance. Unions will help you none if you do a bad job.

    That was the only area where I took the time to disagree with. In all honesty, I don't fell that strongly about the topic and the issues raised (aside from the incorrect premise that our schools are failing. They ARE improving).

    Our world standing in science and math are contrary to that statement.

    Also tests aren't the best way to measure success. Are kids able to apply what they learn, are they able to develop their own theory or ideas about what they learn. Are they able think critically over issued that they are facing? I would say no.

  8. #17

    Default Re: Alternative approach to schools in USA

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    Our world standing in science and math are contrary to that statement.

    Also tests aren't the best way to measure success. Are kids able to apply what they learn, are they able to develop their own theory or ideas about what they learn. Are they able think critically over issued that they are facing? I would say no.
    Maybe in world standing, but we are improving. I initially simply was responding to the claim that we are doing poorer in schools. That clearly is not the case.

    I agree with your second statement, but unfortunately, in a world governed by quantifying, standardized tests are all that we have and use.
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  9. #18
    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
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    Default Re: Alternative approach to schools in USA

    Wow I had to take a moment of silence, we agree.

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