Re: Hooray euro socialism

**UGLY** · 11-28-2010, 10:48 AM

Originally Posted by Ground&Pound

You certainly aren't going to hear me argue against fiscal responsibility.

However, you guys pointing fingers at "them", "they", "those socialists" etc. is nothing but unproductive partisan spin.

If you believe the reason for our current recession is our government's (Democrat) socialist/communist policies, then you got fool by someone.

You need to take your understanding to the next level. Quit being lazy by allowing someone else to think for you.

The Democrat Party is not only to blame. I have said multiple times on this site that the Republicans were terrible in the bush era, that is a fact. But now we need to get past that and reduce spending. It does nobody any good to say " the republicans spent all this money before we could". Like it isnt fair that now that they are in charge they cant spend like crazy.

The simple fact is that the Obama administration has referenced his fondness for euro socialism but we see that it is not working..

**quinn14** · 11-28-2010, 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by Ground&Pound

You need to take your understanding to the next level. Quit being lazy by allowing someone else to think for you.

Are you suggesting that socialism does work? With European economies collapsing and the people rioting, why would we want to move in that direction? Government health care is a step towards it and wanting to stop it now, I think, is a wise decision. I didn't agree with the auto bailouts, either. Bush did that and he explained why in in his book, but it doesn't make it right.

I will not pretend to completely understand the global economy, but it doesn't look like governments around the world are very good at understanding it either. When you have more government employees and government programs to pay for than the money you have to pay it, it can't last. We need to change something and it's going to require a sacrifice from all of us to do it. In the long run, I think getting government out of lives and letting individuals decide how to spend their money will work out better. But, then again, I do admit that I have a whole lot of confidence in individuals over government in almost every case.

**RYou** · 11-28-2010, 05:56 PM

Ban I can't believe you are referencing a Barney Frank web page. Do you actually read it? There are more falsehoods in that document than I've read in a publication by a pol.

The first half explains the housing crisis. You can ignore the second half. Ground I found this after my first post and your comment. My statement above is fact and not from someone else s recitation.

**ban basketball** · 11-28-2010, 09:12 PM

Originally Posted by UGLY

After reading your fact check reference I dont see your point in posting it. The post confirmed what ryou said while adding a few more things to the list.

I have to disregard the Barney Frank reference

The very bottom of the factcheck analysis is why I posted it: There are about a dozen parties that can be blamed for the financial meltdown. It wasn't just Bill Clinton, as was proposed.

The Frank reference is actually the better of the two. It is all legislation that's on record.

**quinn14** · 11-28-2010, 09:40 PM

Originally Posted by ban basketball

The Frank reference is actually the better of the two. It is all legislation that's on record.

That is exactly the opposite of what Bush said in his book. He said he warned 17 times that Fannie and Freddie were going to collapse. It wasn't until the 18th time that congress finally listened, and that was after the collapse. It is in the final chapter of his book.

I don't know who is telling the truth, but Bush clearly claims to have seen this coming. He said that he proposed a bill that would strengthen the GSE's regulation in 2003. Barney Frank's quote was " Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are not facing any kind of financial crisis." All of that is on page 454 of Decision Points. So, the question becomes, who do you believe.

**Ground&Pound** · 11-28-2010, 11:56 PM

Originally Posted by quinn14

Are you suggesting that socialism does work?

Can we agree that Medicare is socialism? If so, then in some cases socialism works. Do I have a picture of Stalin hanging in my living room- hell no.

Originally Posted by quinn14

Government health care is a step towards it and wanting to stop it now, I think, is a wise decision.

Government health care???? Obama's health care reform doesn't come close to resembling Canadian or some European "government health care" systems. Our system was (and probably still is) on track to go over a cliff in the near future. Something needs to be done. But when someone has the balls to say that, you guys spin it to make them look like liberal, socialist kooks.

You free markets guys have it all figured out. Let big pharma and the health insurance mega corporations have their lobbyist save the day. Anything else is Socialism or Communism in your eyes.

Look, I'm all for a free market - on a level playing field. The government should be the referee and set up fair and reasonable regulations that are in the best interest of our country/economy. If big business is allowed, they will tilt the field and exploit the system. That's what they are supposed to do. They only exist to make a profit.

Take a look who's winning in the current environment. Corporations are setting record profits, while the common man is getting curb stomped. Yet you guys spin any attempt to level the field as some socialist wacko coup.

Turn your radio dial already. You owe it to your self.

**FloggingSully** · 11-29-2010, 10:11 AM

Originally Posted by UGLY

The stock market is down because of the fantastic socialist ideals of europe. Ireland is the latest country to claim bankruptcy with portugal not far behind.

Those 'socialists' have the lowest (or thereabouts) corporate tax rates in the developed world.

**ban basketball** · 11-29-2010, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by RYou

Ban I can't believe you are referencing a Barney Frank web page. Do you actually read it? There are more falsehoods in that document than I've read in a publication by a pol.

The first half explains the housing crisis. You can ignore the second half.

Well, when I posted it, it was probably the fifth or sixth time that I've read it.

Being a man of fact, first and foremost, what is in error about it?

If it is in error I'll never refer to it again and beg for someone to provide correction to it.

**ban basketball** · 11-29-2010, 12:26 PM

Originally Posted by Ground&Pound

Can we agree that Medicare is socialism? If so, then in some cases socialism works. Do I have a picture of Stalin hanging in my living room- hell no.

Government health care???? Obama's health care reform doesn't come close to resembling Canadian or some European "government health care" systems. Our system was (and probably still is) on track to go over a cliff in the near future. Something needs to be done. But when someone has the balls to say that, you guys spin it to make them look like liberal, socialist kooks.

You free markets guys have it all figured out. Let big pharma and the health insurance mega corporations have their lobbyist save the day. Anything else is Socialism or Communism in your eyes.

Look, I'm all for a free market - on a level playing field. The government should be the referee and set up fair and reasonable regulations that are in the best interest of our country/economy. If big business is allowed, they will tilt the field and exploit the system. That's what they are supposed to do. They only exist to make a profit.

Take a look who's winning in the current environment. Corporations are setting record profits, while the common man is getting curb stomped. Yet you guys spin any attempt to level the field as some socialist wacko coup.

Turn your radio dial already. You owe it to your self.

As if our system hasn't already been wrought with "socialism" long before January 2009!

Our economy, as well as every other economic system in the world has always been, as economists call it, a "mixed economy," meaning it is a blend of capitalism and socialism, as are all world economies.

If a purely capitalist or purely socialist system in the world can be found, someone please let me know about it.

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