The Bush plan was to make Iraq a model nation of peace and prosperity by doing things the American way. Then hopefully, the rest of the Middle East would wish to do the same.
Occupying Iraq would also give us a jumping off point to get to the bad guys in the region.
A few years ago, these were laugh-out-loud statements.
Today, they still may bring a chuckle, but some progress has been made.
Still laughable in my opinion. I think even the Bushies have completely abandoned those ideals and we are hoping to be able to leave behind a stable Iraq that is not a breeding ground for terrorists.
We have a tendency in the US to look at the World from our perspective, as if everyone else holds the same values and lives in the same conditions. This can backfire for the idealists who think we can sprinkle love and harmony around the World as well as those who think we can march in and create American-like democracies.
Something that seems to be overlooked in the US and especially the media is the demographics of age in this region. I've seen various numbers but the following report shows that 60% of the population are children (under 15) or adolescents (15-24). There is also a high fertility rate and women rationally marry at a young age.
Combine poor economic prospects with a young, impressionable, population and it is a recipe for developing zealots who willingly accept the idea that their living conditions are due to external influences, whether that is true or not. Not unlike hate mongering groups in the US that can troll the young and seemingly disenfranchised for new members.
Moving from a life of squalor to becoming a martyr is a lot more attractive career option among much of this population than most realize.
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"Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government!”
Maybe this is just semantics... you can wage a battle on an ideology but you are not going to win a "war".
As far as fighting current extreme Islamic terrorism I believe we have to be aggressive towards the ones who attacked us and try to win the "hearts and minds" of the rest of the Arab world. The war in Iraq did not come close to doing either of these and if fact seemed to be a big step backwards on both accounts.
It's a little strange, considering we "forced democracy" on a country that had an unpopular dictator accused of killing hundreds of thousands during his reign.
As far as making them like us - pie in the sky. When a percentage of the population likes OBL, favors Sharia, justifies rape when girls haven't worn headscarfs, won't except Israel being in the middle east and empathizes with suicide bombers, it's no simple task.
Europe has been bending over backwards to please and accomodate muslims and they are always on the watch for Islamic terrorism (both Spain and England being victims of terror).
It would be cheaper and more sensible to restrict immigration from countries where a sizable percentage of the country isn't apalled by acts of terrorism. Of course we're more likely to do the opposite; the liberal viewpoint is that they'll like us more for allowing more to immigrate here. Doesn't appear to have worked in England.
__________________ In order to manage risk we must first understand risk. To understand risk, we must first define risk. How do you spot risk? How do you avoid risk and what makes it so risky?
Europe has been bending over backwards to please and accomodate muslims and they are always on the watch for Islamic terrorism (both Spain and England being victims of terror).
"Incredible as it might seem, some experts predict that Europe will have an Islamic majority sometime well before the end of this century. Thus, the US may at some point look across the Atlantic and see not the familiar, nominally Christian, and largely secular partner it has known for many decades but something else entirely: an Islamic Europe." http://www.afa.org/magazine/July2005/0705europe.asp
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"Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government!”
It's a little strange, considering we "forced democracy" on a country that had an unpopular dictator accused of killing hundreds of thousands during his reign.
As far as making them like us - pie in the sky. When a percentage of the population likes OBL, favors Sharia, justifies rape when girls haven't worn headscarfs, won't except Israel being in the middle east and empathizes with suicide bombers, it's no simple task.
Europe has been bending over backwards to please and accomodate muslims and they are always on the watch for Islamic terrorism (both Spain and England being victims of terror).
It would be cheaper and more sensible to restrict immigration from countries where a sizable percentage of the country isn't apalled by acts of terrorism. Of course we're more likely to do the opposite; the liberal viewpoint is that they'll like us more for allowing more to immigrate here. Doesn't appear to have worked in England.
I think your assessment on making them like us is valid. I am not sure what the answer is...perhaps the reason why we can't seem to win the battle that really matters, i.e. hearts and minds.
I totally disagree with the immigration restriction policy. We should not be letting extremists / whackos in from any country. But the people more likely to want to immigrate are not the ones who hate the US and its principles.
I know that many of the 9/11 terrorists were given student visas, but I still think that the liberal issueing of student visas is the one of the best foriegn and economic policy tools that we have. The restriction of student visas since 9/11, IMHO, is bad for this country.
ODH - immigration is almost always about money. It's almost never about respect for history, laws, way of life or civil rights. Refugees are also bogus almost all of the time (doesn't make sense for a refugee to arrive on the other side of the world if they are just looking to be free of religious or political persecution).
Europe is very liberal and many of their immigrants propose barbaric laws and customs from where they just came. They are in Europe for social services and/or employment. Europe has gone out of its way to accomodate their muslim immigrants while I think we have a much better relationship with ours without putting in the same effort.
Letting people in from all over based trying not to discriminate is kind of foolish and its costly. I'm fine with giving preference to countries south of us in North America or evern countries in South America since they are part of the same pan-continent (provided they, in turn offer us the same relationship). I think it makes much more sense to take immigrants from Ethiopia vs immigrants from Somalia (to take an example from the same part of the world).
My dad's an immigrant btw
__________________ In order to manage risk we must first understand risk. To understand risk, we must first define risk. How do you spot risk? How do you avoid risk and what makes it so risky?
A battle can be waged on ideology. To do so the USA has to regain the moral high ground.
Building schools, building and supplying hospitals are excellent ways to start on a positive path on a war of ideology.
This does not mean the war on terrorism will end. But until the general Arab population has a more positive view about the USA and the rest of the Western nations terrorism will remain strong.
There is a possibility the bin Laden is already dead.
If bin Laden is alive there is a good reason not to have him killed in a way that the public would know for certain he is dead, martyrdom.
Bin Laden's death could potentially have a more drastic effect of triggering terrorism attacks if bin Laden's death was seen as that of a martyr.
The best manner in which bin Laden could die would be after a trial and to be sentenced to death in a Arab courtroom. This would probably have the best chance of reducing bin Laden's chances of martyrdom.
This isreally eerie..... I actually agree with ccbig on this statement.
__________________ BRUTUS BUCKEYE WILL TAKE YOU DOWN...
There is a possibility the bin Laden is already dead.
If bin Laden is alive there is a good reason not to have him killed in a way that the public would know for certain he is dead, martyrdom.
Bin Laden's death could potentially have a more drastic effect of triggering terrorism attacks if bin Laden's death was seen as that of a martyr.
The best manner in which bin Laden could die would be after a trial and to be sentenced to death in a Arab courtroom. This would probably have the best chance of reducing bin Laden's chances of martyrdom.
This is really eerie..... I actually agree with ccbig on this statement.
__________________ BRUTUS BUCKEYE WILL TAKE YOU DOWN...
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