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Thread: Religion out of the Question Thread

  1. #217
    Ancient Arachnid Spider's Avatar
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    Default Re: Religion out of the Question Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by coachsparky View Post
    I suggest you butt out, I was not talking to you was I?

    This is a forum, not a dialogue. I suggest you watch your mouth (fingers?).
    Atrophy: what you get when you win atournament.

  2. #218

    Default Re: Religion out of the Question Thread

    Actually no I am not conceding that point. I posted passages that say all will be saved:

    <link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5CB5EDDREH%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5Cm sohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:PunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <wontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><style> <!-- /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]--> I Corinthians 15:22. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.<o>></o>>
    <o>> </o>>
    Colossians 1:20.<sup>19</sup>For in him [Christ] all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, <sup>20</sup>and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.<o>></o>>
    <o>> </o>>
    Romans 5:18: <sup>18</sup>Then as one man's trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one man's act of righteousness leads to acquittal and life for all men.


    Ugly responded saying that it is not true that all would be saved. When you say that something is not true that is clearly stated, are you not saying that those statements are a lie. I believe I am correct in that, if you do not think so please show me where my logic is flawed. I clearly never admitted any flaw in my argument so Ugly's had no logical origin where my restating of Ugly's position does.

    He may not have said the exact words that the Bible lies but to say those statements that I took right out of the Bible are incorrect is to say those statements are lies.
    Last edited by coachsparky; 07-22-2010 at 03:36 PM.

  3. #219

    Default Re: Religion out of the Question Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Spider View Post
    This is a forum, not a dialogue. I suggest you watch your mouth (fingers?).
    I don't get it spider, what do you mean by this?

  4. #220

    Default Re: Religion out of the Question Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by coachsparky View Post
    Actually no I am not conceding that point. I posted passages that say all will be saved:

    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name="ProgId" content="Word.Document"><meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 11"><meta name="Originator" content="Microsoft Word 11"><link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5CB5EDDREH%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5Cm sohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:PunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <wontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><style> <!-- /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]--> I Corinthians 15:22. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.<o></o>
    <o> </o>
    Colossians 1:20.<sup>19</sup>For in him [Christ] all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, <sup>20</sup>and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.<o></o>
    <o> </o>
    Romans 5:18: <sup>18</sup>Then as one man's trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one man's act of righteousness leads to acquittal and life for all men.


    [COLOR=rgb(0, 0, 0)]Ugly responded saying that it is not true that all would be saved. When you say that something is not true that is clearly stated, are you not saying that those statements are a lie. I believe I am correct in that, if you do not think so please show me where my logic is flawed. [/COLOR] I clearly never admitted any flaw in my argument so Ugly's had not logical origin where my restating of Ugly's position does.

    He may not have said the exact words that the Bible lies but to say those statements that I took right out of the Bible are incorrect is to say those statements are lies.
    The problem with your logic is that my and Ugly's (I don't want to speak completely for him) interpretations of verses are different from yours. You are saying that we don't believe the Bible, when I think I interpret it right and you are wrong. For instance.

    The first verse you posted above says that "in Christ all shall be made alive". That, to me, means that you have to be "in Christ", which means to accept him as your saviour and be born again in his spirit. It's the same in the second one you posted. The last one shows that Adam's sin made us all sinners and through Jesus, we CAN all be saved. I do not interpret it as all ARE saved.

    These interpretations do not make anyone believe that the Bible lies. Just like you have your own interpretations, so do Ugly and I. So, by saying or suggesting that he said the Bible lies is false. You put words in his mouth and as you said it was disrespectful.

  5. #221

    Default Re: Religion out of the Question Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by quinn14 View Post
    The problem with your logic is that my and Ugly's (I don't want to speak completely for him) interpretations of verses are different from yours. You are saying that we don't believe the Bible, when I think I interpret it right and you are wrong. For instance.

    The first verse you posted above says that "in Christ all shall be made alive". That, to me, means that you have to be "in Christ", which means to accept him as your saviour and be born again in his spirit. It's the same in the second one you posted. The last one shows that Adam's sin made us all sinners and through Jesus, we CAN all be saved. I do not interpret it as all ARE saved.

    These interpretations do not make anyone believe that the Bible lies. Just like you have your own interpretations, so do Ugly and I. So, by saying or suggesting that he said the Bible lies is false. You put words in his mouth and as you said it was disrespectful.
    I am not interpreting the verses, I am allowing them to speak for themselves simply as the words are stated. I guess convoluted interpretation just are not my thing.

  6. #222

    Default Re: Religion out of the Question Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by coachsparky View Post
    I am not interpreting the verses, I am allowing them to speak for themselves simply as the words are stated. I guess convoluted interpretation just are not my thing.
    Funny you should say that, because that is exactly what you did when you said that Ugly said the Bible lied. You made a convoluted interpretation. Now, seriously let's all just agree to disagree. For whatever reason I can't stop reading when someone posts on this thread, so can we just stop posting? I will make every effort to not respond to anything else on this particular thread. Truce?

  7. #223

    Default Re: Religion out of the Question Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by quinn14 View Post
    Funny you should say that, because that is exactly what you did when you said that Ugly said the Bible lied. You made a convoluted interpretation. Now, seriously let's all just agree to disagree. For whatever reason I can't stop reading when someone posts on this thread, so can we just stop posting? I will make every effort to not respond to anything else on this particular thread. Truce?
    There is no battle for which there needs to be a truce, but I do have one more thing I feel compelled to say (or rather type) that relays back to your interpretation of those scriptures:

    <link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5CB5EDDREH%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5Cm sohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:PunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <wontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><style> <!-- /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]--> So I guess, by your interpretation, since I never accepted Adam, I do not have to die? I am no more in Adam than I am in Christ. I most certainly never accepted Adam or his teaching while I have Jesus and his teachings.<o></o>

  8. #224
    Ancient Arachnid Spider's Avatar
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    Default Re: Religion out of the Question Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by coachsparky View Post
    I don't get it spider, what do you mean by this?
    I'm sorry I was a little rude, but you were wrong to tell Quinn to butt out. Even though you were having a one-on-one with UGLY, other people's opinions should be welcome and encouraged. That's the purpose of a forum.
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  9. #225
    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
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    Default Re: Religion out of the Question Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by coachsparky View Post
    I would appreciate if if you did not put words in my mouth Ugly, I have not done so to you and to do so is disrespectful. No that is not what i said. I do believe no where in the Bible does it teach a thing about an eternal damnation or punishment or annihilation. I do however believe the intent of teaching there is life after death is that the soul never dies, it is permanent. I have not admitted any flaw in my position, I believe it is correct, I do believe there is a huge huge flaw in a position held by some that there is a permanent damnation because it is inconsistent with a loving God which I believe is correct. The God of permanent punishment and annihilation is an evil monster to be fought against. In my opinion that God is the devil. That is my position.
    The loving God argument wasnt what you were making before. You were basing your argument on the misinterpretation of the word eternal or everlasting. You did admit that according to your study of the word eternal that there was no eternal salvation, you said that. I did not put any words in your mouth.

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