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Discuss Religion out of the Question Thread at the Politics & Religion within the Wrestling Talk Forums; Originally Posted by coachsparky You accept the faith of some preacher who tells you what ...
  1. #154
    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
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    Default Re: Religion out of the Question Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by coachsparky View Post
    You accept the faith of some preacher who tells you what to believe. No it does not suit me to mean what it means other places in the Bible. It is just the fact that it means that other thing elsewhere in the Bible so it makes sense not to change the meaning just this time. Now that seems pretty arbitrary and for a purpose that a translator decided they wanted to get across. Why else would it be translated as long ages other places and eternal or everlasting here?
    Sparky unless you created Unitarian universalism that is exactly what you do. I have this crazy ability to read and then come to my own conclusions. i disagree with the main church on many things, so I dont just accept.

    Back to this everlasting issue. I told that there are many places the bible calls life after death eternal life not everlasting, then I showed you where the bible says everlasting punishment. So what is it. Do you believe in eternal life or is the bible wrong as you have pointed out that it is a misinterpretation. You cant have it both ways, the words cant mean one thing when you want them to and something else when you dont. And please this time answer the question directly not in a round a bout kind of way.

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    Default Re: Religion out of the Question Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    Sparky unless you created Unitarian universalism that is exactly what you do. I have this crazy ability to read and then come to my own conclusions. i disagree with the main church on many things, so I dont just accept.

    Back to this everlasting issue. I told that there are many places the bible calls life after death eternal life not everlasting, then I showed you where the bible says everlasting punishment. So what is it. Do you believe in eternal life or is the bible wrong as you have pointed out that it is a misinterpretation. You cant have it both ways, the words cant mean one thing when you want them to and something else when you dont. And please this time answer the question directly not in a round a bout kind of way.
    Wrong, Ugly you do not understand UU if that is what you think. In UU, you are challenged to develop your own spiritual path and you are NOT directed in any way which path to take or where to end up. You on the other hand coming from a traditional Christian background are told what you must believe, and that is why you come on here and tell us all what we supposedly must believe. I can only tell you what I know for a fact to be true for me. I know that I have done enough reading, enough listening, enough introspection and praying to have complete confidence in what I believe. I know nobody believes exactly like I do because they have not walked in my shoes and they have can not know what is in my heart and in my mind.

    I also know that my faith is rock solid and not weak or soft in any way because it is my own and not someone else's that I have accepted and that is the case with most UU's.
    Last edited by coachsparky; 07-19-2010 at 10:51 AM.

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    Olympic Champ quinn14's Avatar
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    Default Re: Religion out of the Question Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Spider View Post
    I don't claim to represent atheists and can only speak for myself. I believe Jesus existed and was a progressive thinker with good ideas. I do not believe that he was the son of God or anything more than a charismatic human being.
    So in today's world would you consider him like a David Koresh? I think Koresh claimed to be a messaih, too. I could be wrong but you get the jist of the question.

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    Default Re: Religion out of the Question Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by quinn14 View Post
    So in today's world would you consider him like a David Koresh? I think Koresh claimed to be a messaih, too. I could be wrong but you get the jist of the question.
    Quinn, can you show me the verse where Jesus claims to be the messiah, not someone else making the claim but Jesus himself out of his own mouth?

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    Ancient Arachnid Spider's Avatar
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    Default Re: Religion out of the Question Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by quinn14 View Post
    So in today's world would you consider him like a David Koresh? I think Koresh claimed to be a messaih, too. I could be wrong but you get the jist of the question.
    Claiming to be the messiah doesn't make someone Jesus-like. Maybe I'd equate Jesus more to Ghandi.
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    Default Re: Religion out of the Question Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Spider View Post
    Claiming to be the messiah doesn't make someone Jesus-like. Maybe I'd equate Jesus more to Ghandi.
    Maybe I worded that wrong. I mean not "Jesus-like", but either crazy or just a liar. If he wasn't who he said, wouldn't that make him either mentally crazy or just a liar? I know you feel as though he did good things and was a visionary, but when it comes down to it, wouldn't he have to be a little "off" to claim to be the Son of God if he wasn't? Again, I am not attacking your views, just curious.

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    Default Re: Religion out of the Question Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by quinn14 View Post
    Maybe I worded that wrong. I mean not "Jesus-like", but either crazy or just a liar. If he wasn't who he said, wouldn't that make him either mentally crazy or just a liar? I know you feel as though he did good things and was a visionary, but when it comes down to it, wouldn't he have to be a little "off" to claim to be the Son of God if he wasn't? Again, I am not attacking your views, just curious.
    He went against the establishment for the betterment of mankind. If he claimed to be or believed himself to be the son of God (which coachsparky disputes and I can't confirm or deny), then he certainly had an inflated view of himself.
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    Olympic Champ quinn14's Avatar
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    Default Re: Religion out of the Question Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by coachsparky View Post
    Quinn, can you show me the verse where Jesus claims to be the messiah, not someone else making the claim but Jesus himself out of his own mouth?
    Matthew 26:63-64.
    Mark 14:61-62
    Luke 24:44-49

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    Default Re: Religion out of the Question Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by quinn14 View Post
    Matthew 26:63-64.
    Mark 14:61-62
    Luke 24:44-49
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    Matthew 26:63-64 (Today's New International Version)<o></o>

    <sup id="en-TNIV-24121">63</sup> But Jesus remained silent.
    The high priest said to him, "I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Messiah, the Son of God." <o></o>
    <sup>64</sup> "You have said so," Jesus replied. "But I say to all of you: From now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."
    <o> </o>
    Mark 14:61-62 (Today's New International Version)<o></o>

    <sup id="en-TNIV-24815">61</sup> But Jesus remained silent and gave no answer.
    Again the high priest asked him, "Are you the Messiah, the Son of the Blessed One?" <o></o>
    <sup>62</sup> "I am," said Jesus. "And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."
    <o> </o>
    Luke 24:44-49 (Today's New International Version)<o></o>

    <sup id="en-TNIV-26032">44</sup> He said to them, "This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms." <o></o>
    <sup>45</sup> Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. <sup id="en-TNIV-26034">46</sup> He told them, "This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, <sup id="en-TNIV-26035">47</sup> and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. <sup id="en-TNIV-26036">48</sup> You are witnesses of these things. <sup id="en-TNIV-26037">49</sup> I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high."


    <o></o>
    Interesting quinn. Two of your verses seem to contradict each other and they are of the same story by two different authors, in one he answers in the affirmative and in the other he says it is what they are claiming not he. But you do have two different sources where he does apparently claim to be the messiah. It is very important to note that Jews will tell you that no Jew alive today or in time of Jesus ever believed that the messiah would be anything but a great man, destined to lead Israel to great military victories.

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