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Thread: Is God Punishing the Gulf

  1. #100

    Default Re: Is God Punishing the Gulf

    Quote Originally Posted by quinn14 View Post
    Now, I can respond to a question like this. But, beware, my answer may not be what you want to read! I really and truly do believe that God created all things on earth just as he wanted them. That doesn't mean that there hasn't been changes in species since they have been created. But, evolution, the way scientists say it has happened, I do not believe. Yes, there were dinosaurs and no they weren't in the Bible. But, that is because the Bible is the story of man, not animals. So, a monkey or ape may have changed over the years, but not man the way evolutionists want us to believe. The reason other species may have changed, IMO, is because of changes that occured on earth, which corresponds with some of what evolutionists have found.

    My opinions are not that far off from scientists and neither are most people who believe in the Bible. Man, however, was created as a man. That is what I believe, anyway. You all can believe whatever you want. I still think BJ would be unbeatable with foot thumbs!!
    So I have a question Quinn. Do you believe in a gradual creation by God. I have heard of people who believe that and at least that shows that they are trying to reconcile their beliefs with what the evidence shows. Is that how you explain the FACTS that in the deepest rock formation from some 3.6 billion years they find fossilized remains of the most primitive single celled organisms. Then about half a billion years later evidence of photosynthesis having developed, then another billion years later fossilized evidence of somewhat more complex single celled organisms, then about a billion years later fossilized evidence of the most primitive muticellular organisms, then about 400 million years later the Cambrian explosion with many sea life animals appearing then about 150 million years later the very first terrestrial plant life, then about 100 million years later the first amphibians develop, then about 40 million years later the first reptiles, then about 90 million years later the first mammals and then about 214 million years later around 500000 years ago the first homosapiens. That is what we know as fact because it is immorialized within the fossil record. If you believe in a gradual period of creation, you are consistent with many who at least make an effort to reconcile their need to accept the Bible as literal in a sense and the actual evidential facts of the real world. <O</O

  2. #101

    Default Re: Is God Punishing the Gulf

    Quote Originally Posted by Chance174 View Post
    Now correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the big bang and evolution theories and haven't been proven as fact?

    BTW you don't always have to act like an ass and attack people like you do.
    Here is a little science primer for you Chance, evolution is a FACT:

    http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolution-fact.html

    When non-biologists talk about biological evolution they often confuse two different aspects of the definition. On the one hand there is the question of whether or not modern organisms have evolved from older ancestral organisms or whether modern species are continuing to change over time. On the other hand there are questions about the mechanism of the observed changes... how did evolution occur? Biologists consider the existence of biological evolution to be a fact. It can be demonstrated today and the historical evidence for its occurrence in the past is overwhelming. However, biologists readily admit that they are less certain of the exact mechanism of evolution; there are several theories of the mechanism of evolution.

  3. #102

    Default Re: Is God Punishing the Gulf

    Quote Originally Posted by Chance174 View Post
    Now correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the big bang and evolution theories and haven't been proven as fact?

    BTW you don't always have to act like an ass and attack people like you do.


    More on the FACT of evolution.

    In the American vernacular, "theory" often means "imperfect fact"--part of a hierarchy of confidence running downhill from fact to theory to hypothesis to guess. Thus the power of the creationist argument: evolution is "only" a theory and intense debate now rages about many aspects of the theory. If evolution is worse than a fact, and scientists can't even make up their minds about the theory, then what confidence can we have in it? Indeed, President Reagan echoed this argument before an evangelical group in Dallas when he said (in what I devoutly hope was campaign rhetoric): "Well, it is a theory. It is a scientific theory only, and it has in recent years been challenged in the world of science--that is, not believed in the scientific community to be as infallible as it once was."
    Well evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape-like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered.
    Moreover, "fact" doesn't mean "absolute certainty"; there ain't no such animal in an exciting and complex world. The final proofs of logic and mathematics flow deductively from stated premises and achieve certainty only because they are not about the empirical world. Evolutionists make no claim for perpetual truth, though creationists often do (and then attack us falsely for a style of argument that they themselves favor). In science "fact" can only mean "confirmed to such a degree that it would be perverse to withhold provisional consent." I suppose that apples might start to rise tomorrow, but the possibility does not merit equal time in physics classrooms.
    Evolutionists have been very clear about this distinction of fact and theory from the very beginning, if only because we have always acknowledged how far we are from completely understanding the mechanisms (theory) by which evolution (fact) occurred. Darwin continually emphasized the difference between his two great and separate accomplishments: establishing the fact of evolution, and proposing a theory--natural selection--to explain the mechanism of evolution.
    - Stephen J. Gould, " Evolution as Fact and Theory"; Discover, May 1981

  4. #103

    Default Re: Is God Punishing the Gulf

    Quote Originally Posted by Chance174 View Post
    Now correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the big bang and evolution theories and haven't been proven as fact?

    BTW you don't always have to act like an ass and attack people like you do.
    More on the FACT of evolution.

    Let me try to make crystal clear what is established beyond reasonable doubt, and what needs further study, about evolution. Evolution as a process that has always gone on in the history of the earth can be doubted only by those who are ignorant of the evidence or are resistant to evidence, owing to emotional blocks or to plain bigotry. By contrast, the mechanisms that bring evolution about certainly need study and clarification. There are no alternatives to evolution as history that can withstand critical examination. Yet we are constantly learning new and important facts about evolutionary mechanisms.
    - Theodosius Dobzhansky "Nothing in Biology Makes Sense Except in the Light of Evolution", American Biology Teacher <ABBR title=volume>vol.</ABBR> 35 (March 1973) reprinted in <CITE>Evolution versus Creationism</CITE>, J. Peter Zetterberg <ABBR title=editor>ed.</ABBR>, ORYX Press, Phoenix <ABBR title=Arizona>AZ</ABBR> 1983

  5. #104
    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is God Punishing the Gulf

    Sparky would you go so far to say that evolution is such a fact that science will never disprove it with another more adequate theory? I just want to know how confident you are that evolution is the end all be all, like pluto for a fact was a planet and now its not. I understand that science continually seeks answers but when can you know that something is an absolute scientific fact.

    This is a legit question I am not trying to be a smart ass.

  6. #105

    Default Re: Is God Punishing the Gulf

    Quote Originally Posted by Chance174 View Post
    Now correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the big bang and evolution theories and haven't been proven as fact?

    BTW you don't always have to act like an ass and attack people like you do.
    More on the FACT of evolution. And by the way, Dr Richard Lewontin is a trinitarian Christian. How bout them apples.

    It is time for students of the evolutionary process, especially those who have been misquoted and used by the creationists, to state clearly that evolution is a fact, not theory, and that what is at issue within biology are questions of details of the process and the relative importance of different mechanisms of evolution. It is a fact that the earth with liquid water, is more than 3.6 billion years old. It is a fact that cellular life has been around for at least half of that period and that organized multicellular life is at least 800 million years old. It is a fact that major life forms now on earth were not at all represented in the past. There were no birds or mammals 250 million years ago. It is a fact that major life forms of the past are no longer living. There used to be dinosaurs and Pithecanthropus, and there are none now. It is a fact that all living forms come from previous living forms. Therefore, all present forms of life arose from ancestral forms that were different. Birds arose from nonbirds and humans from nonhumans. No person who pretends to any understanding of the natural world can deny these facts any more than she or he can deny that the earth is round, rotates on its axis, and revolves around the sun.
    The controversies about evolution lie in the realm of the relative importance of various forces in molding evolution.
    - R. C. Lewontin "Evolution/Creation Debate: A Time for Truth" Bioscience 31, 559 (1981) reprinted in <CITE>Evolution versus Creationism</CITE>, op cit.

  7. #106
    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is God Punishing the Gulf

    Also what if scientist are working from an answer instead of working toward an answer like many of the Global warming people do?

  8. #107

    Default Re: Is God Punishing the Gulf

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    Sparky would you go so far to say that evolution is such a fact that science will never disprove it with another more adequate theory? I just want to know how confident you are that evolution is the end all be all, like pluto for a fact was a planet and now its not. I understand that science continually seeks answers but when can you know that something is an absolute scientific fact.

    This is a legit question I am not trying to be a smart ass.
    As all the posts I have added today from absolutely revered scientist says, evolution is a FACT. It has definitely irrefutably occured and continues to occur. The exact mechanism are the only things in dispute based on the current state of knowledge and evidence. Then you need to also look at the bit by Stephen J. Gould where he said, "Moreover, "fact" doesn't mean "absolute certainty"; there ain't no such animal in an exciting and complex world."

  9. #108

    Default Re: Is God Punishing the Gulf

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    Also what if scientist are working from an answer instead of working toward an answer like many of the Global warming people do?
    This indicate a lack of understanding of what science really is.

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