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Thread: War on Terror

  1. #10
    Ancient Arachnid Spider's Avatar
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    Default Re: War on Terror

    Quote Originally Posted by Flop The Nuts View Post
    I prefer TWOT.
    Me too, but that's a whole 'nother topic.
    Atrophy: what you get when you win atournament.

  2. #11
    Olympic Champ kr1963's Avatar
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    Default Re: War on Terror

    I can understand Brennan's need to clarify terms as the current nomenclature promotes suspicion, mistrust, misunderstanding, & even hatred. But perhaps another perspective is needed on this as the American view of history is generally one-sided & "edited." To understand where any of these sentiments may have come from I suggest this basic outline.

    The idea that Bush Jr put forth, that "they hate us & hate our freedom" is not true. It is more that they hate the hypocrisy of "exporting democracy" while suppressing freedom in the region for so long in the name of extrapolating the petroleum natural resources of the middle eastern countries for the sole benefit of the Multi-national corporations & the respective country's ruling class.

    Terrorist is simply a perspective of the oppressor & the oppressed. And then of course there is the entire question of who created the terrorists & their supposed actions.

    Read Confessions of an Economic Hitman by John Perkins.

    Books : John Perkins Official Web Site

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKRKZqdgBXg"]YouTube - Confessions of an Economic Hitman part 1/4[/ame]


    With the fall of the Ottoman Empire after WWI,
    Iraq was "created" divided up by the UK in the 1920s. Then the British cut out the shoreline for themselves & called it Kuwait. The Kingdom of Iraq did not come into existence until the British occupation ceased in 1932.
    History of Iraq - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



    In the 1950s, Iran democratically elected a PM
    Mohammed Mossadegh who wanted BP & Standard Oil out. US/UK corporate interests had him overthrown. They installed the Shah who tortured his people until the Islamic coup took over 26 years later.
    1953 Iranian coup d'?tat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The over throw of the
    Shah, the Corporate interests, (Corporatocracy) sought another presence int he region. Enter Saddam Hussein who was supported by the Corporatocracy.
    Rumsfeld-Hussein handshake


    They help an illegal war vs Iran, where the Iraqi forces used chemical weapons & millions died.

    Iran–Iraq War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    When Hussein decided to reclaim Kuwait as a part of Iraq he sets off the circumstances where begot Gulf War I. The Corporatocracy couldn't allow the Oil in the middle east NOT to be in their control.

    Invasion of Kuwait - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    GW-I curbed Hussein but did not overthrow him. The Corporatocracy needed an excuse to invade Iraq again. The
    Project for the American Century, a DC based think tank published a report written by Paul Wolfowitz in 2000. It states "Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event––like a new Pearl Harbor"

    What would 9/11 be? In a report written a year before 9/11? Who really attacked us?


    Osama bin Laden was a member of the "freedom fighters" trained by the CIA to defeat the Soviets after their 1980 invasion of Afghanistan.

    How the CIA created Osama bin Laden | Green Left Weekly


    In the early 1970s OPEC basically shut down the oil flow, resulting in long lines of cars at gas stations. As a result, the U.S. Treasury Department found a way to make sure the U.S. would never again be held hostage by OPEC. Saudi Arabia controlled more oil than anybody else in the world & was the key. The House of Saud, the royal family, was corruptible. A secret deal was made. The House of Saud would reinvest petrol-dollars in U.S. treasury securities. The Treasury Department would use the interest earned on these investments to pay U.S. companies to westernize Saudi Arabia-to build power plants, industrial parks, and whole cities out of the desert.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ux-M2k5xRBo&feature=related"]YouTube - Confessions of an Economic Hitman part 2/4[/ame]


    Some say that bin Laden used this as motivation to move against the USA. There are also reports on the net where MI6 agents claim that bin Laden & Al-Qaeda are a complete US fabrication.

    Robin Cook: The struggle against terrorism cannot be won by military means | UK news | The Guardian

    Fake Al Qaeda

    "The truth is, there is no Islamic army or terrorist group called Al Qaida. And any informed intelligence officer knows this. But there is a propaganda campaign to make the public believe in the presence of an identified entity representing the 'devil' only in order to drive the TV watcher to accept a unified international leadership for a war against terrorism. The country behind this propaganda is the US . . ." -- Former British Foreign Secretary Robin Cook

    Plus there is a long history of Western Intelligence agencies looking the other way when these "terrorists" were conducting business ON THEIR BEHALF.

    UK Secret Intelligence Service (MI6)


    In any event you have the history of why
    1) Middle eastern Muslims would have reason to attack the US as the idea of "exporting democracy" is purely hypocritical, (see the history of Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia AND Chile, Panama & Venezuela)
    2) AND the why the Corporatocracy went to Iraq, (get the Oil).


    Far-fetched? The facts speak for themselves. They also point towards a future where the things we think are apart of our culture, will be shown to be facade.
    I can guarantee you that the "War on Terror" will "never" end. It will go on & on.

    "Terrorism" & "terrorists" are terms that will grow even more to include those whom the government does not like. Just like Orwell's 1984.

    I have bet many Democrats that Obama's promise to get out of Iraq will NOT happen by 2010, it will NOT happen by 2012 & IF it does it will be only because the WAR has escalated somewhere else. THIS WAR costs $275 million dollars PER DAY. Some people are getting very rich creating an enemy that "WE" have all become afraid of.

    I hope this helps you understand the actual condition of the planet we live on & that it can still change.

    Last edited by kr1963; 05-27-2010 at 09:57 PM.

  3. #12

    Default Re: War on Terror

    I will go ahead and admit that I didn't have the attention span to read every word you wrote or listen to every link. I am willing to bet that people living in rural Afghanistan or Iraq wouldn't do that either.

    You probably have more knowledge of their country than they do because they don't have access to the knowledge that we do. So, when your leader tells you that there is a jihad, you would probably believe it if you were in their situation.

    I'm not calling then dumb, they are just ignorant to information. And I can feel empathy for them, but at the same time we have to protect ourselves.

  4. #13
    World Champ ODH's Avatar
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    Default Re: War on Terror

    I always had a problem with the phrase "War on Terror".
    Not a big deal, but it is not a war. Only congress can declare war and they did not, so claiming extra-constitutional powers becasue we are at war IMO, violates the constitution.

    In addition, it is a war we cannot win. There is no way to defeat terrorism. There will always be terrorism..the way against Al-Queada makes sense. We have won major battle against them and it is possible to defeat.

    I have the same issue with "The War on Poverty" and "The War on Drugs".
    "Wars" that cannot be won or even finished

  5. #14
    World Champ ODH's Avatar
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    Default Re: War on Terror

    Quote Originally Posted by kr1963 View Post
    [FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]...

    The idea that Bush Jr put forth, that "they hate us & hate our freedom" is not true. It is more that they hate the hypocrisy of "exporting democracy" while suppressing freedom in the region for so long in the name of extrapolating the petroleum natural resources of the middle eastern countries for the sole benefit of the Multi-national corporations & the respective country's ruling class.

    Terrorist is simply a perspective of the oppressor & the oppressed. And then of course there is the entire question of who created the terrorists & their supposed actions.
    ...
    Your posts are too long for me to read entirely, but I like your thoughts on "why they hate us".
    I think the Bush Jr. never really believe that they "hate freedom", but it makes a good sound bite and demonizing the enemy.

  6. #15

    Default Re: War on Terror

    Using the logic of the article posted, "the war on terrorists" might be the appropriate term.

  7. #16

    Default Re: War on Terror

    Quote Originally Posted by ODH View Post
    I always had a problem with the phrase "War on Terror".
    Not a big deal, but it is not a war. Only congress can declare war and they did not, so claiming extra-constitutional powers becasue we are at war IMO, violates the constitution.

    In addition, it is a war we cannot win. There is no way to defeat terrorism. There will always be terrorism..the way against Al-Queada makes sense. We have won major battle against them and it is possible to defeat.

    I have the same issue with "The War on Poverty" and "The War on Drugs".
    "Wars" that cannot be won or even finished
    You bring up a good point that only congress can declare war, but even if it isn't officially declared doesn't mean there isn't a war going on.
    A perfect example would be the Vietnam war...congress never declared war but it was definately a war.

    You are right there will always be terrorism, unfortunately. We have seen this many times throughout history. I'm not trying to read to much into your post but i believe you are saying we can never defeat terrorism as a whole but we can defeat and disrupt terrorist groups. I completey agree with this.

    In regards to the "war on poverty" and the "war on drugs" you are right we can never defeat them completely but that does't mean we can't try and make them less of an issue by fighting them.

  8. #17

    Default Re: War on Terror

    Quote Originally Posted by ODH View Post
    Your posts are too long for me to read entirely, but I like your thoughts on "why they hate us".
    I think the Bush Jr. never really believe that they "hate freedom", but it makes a good sound bite and demonizing the enemy.
    I agree Bush never really believed they "hate freedom" or at least not the way he attempted to make it sound. I don't think they (terrorist groups/countries) "hate freedom" but hate OUR definition of freedom. I think their definition is different and that they also hate the way we act and live based on our definition.

    Not sure if that really makes sense or not.

  9. #18
    National Finalist leglace's Avatar
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    Default Re: War on Terror

    I do think Bush was partially right. The East does not like the influence of the West. They would like to promote their sharia law as the only path to god. It is their job to resist our influence, and they do it with intepretations of their koran and the wording in sharia. Sharia promotes individual privacy, yet many fundamentalists are unhappy with the influences of the internet. So they would like to be justified in finding wrong in pop culture. So much so they make it a crime.

    So they do hate our freedoms, but more so our culture as they feel we are afflicting their youth.

    As far as the statements made by Brennan, he is wrong. We are at war, whether officially announced by congress or not, our homeland security is operating as such. We are not at war with a race, nation, or group. We are at war with an extreme state of mind. The actions of these extremists is motivated biblically as a jihad. And their methods are to terrorize. So excuse me if it just makes the most sense that we are at war with a jihad against us, and the people carrying out attacks are classified as terrorists.

    Political correctness is disarming common sense.
    I pictured you as that guy Gaylord in Showboat, passing up taxis to walk because he's broke and playing it off as if it's the doctor's advice. - Clmetal

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