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Thread: AZ Immigration Law

  1. #118

    Default Re: AZ Immigration Law

    Quote Originally Posted by leglace View Post
    How convenient the whiners cherry pick the short paragraph addressing illegal status, and make up false scenarios. Funny how nobody in opposition have any recommendations to address concerns. That is because they are just simply for amnesty.
    So people can't only have a problem with part of a bill?

    Here's a recommendation from somebody in opposition: keep the 75% that deals with employers, etc and get rid fo the part where everyone is required to carry proof at all times that they aren't commiting a certain crime.
    There's no such thing as a pretty good aligator wrestler.

  2. #119
    National Finalist leglace's Avatar
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    Default Re: AZ Immigration Law

    Quote Originally Posted by FloggingSully View Post
    So people can't only have a problem with part of a bill?

    Here's a recommendation from somebody in opposition: keep the 75% that deals with employers, etc and get rid fo the part where everyone is required to carry proof at all times that they aren't commiting a certain crime.
    Where does it say everybody has to carry ID, that is besides Obama's little fable he told? They will just have an officer, on top of checking for any outstanding warrants, check a database to see if that person is legal.

    I have yet to hear anybody notable suggest what they want changed. They just want it all gone, even though its the same language as the federal law, with improvements.
    Last edited by leglace; 05-19-2010 at 09:54 AM.
    I pictured you as that guy Gaylord in Showboat, passing up taxis to walk because he's broke and playing it off as if it's the doctor's advice. - Clmetal

  3. #120
    National Finalist leglace's Avatar
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    Default Re: AZ Immigration Law

    I have a great analogy for this law.

    ADA has been a federal law to accomodate the disabled. Its a great and well intentioned law. It punishes people for non-compliance. However, since the department of justice has jurisdiction, local jurisdictions did not have power to enforce it. So buildings would be permitted and built without full ADA compliance. Only upon a complaint, would you ever see ADA enforced by the government.

    Local state governments decided to add an accessibility portion to their code, outlining ADA compliance. Now, the local jurisdictions were able to enforce ADA at time of plan review, and at inspection. You could bet that ADA non-compliance for the work is very rare now. Why? Because local authorities were empowered to enforce it.

    Thats all this law is. They took a federal law, and adopted it state wide to allow it to be enforced properly. Its nothing new.
    I pictured you as that guy Gaylord in Showboat, passing up taxis to walk because he's broke and playing it off as if it's the doctor's advice. - Clmetal

  4. #121

    Default Re: AZ Immigration Law

    Quote Originally Posted by leglace View Post
    where does it say everybody has to carry id
    for any lawful contact made by a law enforcement official or agency
    21 of this state or a county, city, town or other political subdivision of this
    22 state where reasonable suspicion exists that the person is an alien who is
    23 unlawfully present in the united states, a reasonable attempt shall be made,
    24 when practicable, to determine the immigration status of the person.
    There's no such thing as a pretty good aligator wrestler.

  5. #122
    National Finalist leglace's Avatar
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    Default Re: AZ Immigration Law

    Quote Originally Posted by FloggingSully View Post
    for any lawful contact made by a law enforcement official or agency
    21 of this state or a county, city, town or other political subdivision of this
    22 state where reasonable suspicion exists that the person is an alien who is
    23 unlawfully present in the united states, a reasonable attempt shall be made,
    24 when practicable, to determine the immigration status of the person.

    I am glad you too have read this. It is much more down to earth once you actually read it.

    This just explains that an officer of the law is allowed to check the status of any individual (not race based) in lawful contact. Nobody will be deported for not having ID. Thats a farce. Wisconsin, Ohio and other middle states, don't need this. Though Illinois may also have visa issues.

    Lawful contact means an officer has a legal means to pull one aside for reasonable cause. We are all supposed to show ID. This law just allows the officer to take it further anc check a database.

    Any law can be abused. This one does not stand out above any other law. If there is evidence that an officer is abusing this law and singling out people by race, its a slam dunk case for any lawyer since this law prohibits this.

    Every state has its own issue with illegal immigration. Not every state needs to amend this bill the way Az has. Florida for instance has a different issue much like NY and NJ. They have over stayed Visa problems. Texas and Cali have border issues. They need a border that is enforced.
    Last edited by leglace; 05-19-2010 at 10:58 AM.
    I pictured you as that guy Gaylord in Showboat, passing up taxis to walk because he's broke and playing it off as if it's the doctor's advice. - Clmetal

  6. #123

    Default Re: AZ Immigration Law

    Quote Originally Posted by leglace View Post
    Nobody will be deported for not having ID. Thats a farce.
    I don't think anyone is saying the people will be deported for not having ID (nobody reasonable at least). But people will likely be detained for not having ID.

    Quote Originally Posted by leglace View Post
    Lawful contact means an officer has a legal means to pull one aside for reasonable cause. We are all supposed to show ID. This law just allows the officer to take it further anc check a database.
    We are have to have ID if we're pulled over. There are lots of ways legal contact can be made that other than pulling somone over. A person who goes out jogging and doesn't wait for a walk light can now be detained for not having ID, I person who's friend picks them up on the side of the road can be detained for not having ID, a person who is riding in a car that get's pulled over, etc.
    There's no such thing as a pretty good aligator wrestler.

  7. #124

    Default Re: AZ Immigration Law

    Quote Originally Posted by FloggingSully View Post
    I don't think anyone is saying the people will be deported for not having ID (nobody reasonable at least). But people will likely be detained for not having ID.


    We are have to have ID if we're pulled over. There are lots of ways legal contact can be made that other than pulling somone over. A person who goes out jogging and doesn't wait for a walk light can now be detained for not having ID, I person who's friend picks them up on the side of the road can be detained for not having ID, a person who is riding in a car that get's pulled over, etc.
    So Sully I am confused. The AZ law is basically just enforcing the federal law.....all immigrants are required to carry their papers by law (federal). So are you saying that we need to change the federal law too or just continue to not enforce it?

  8. #125

    Default Re: AZ Immigration Law

    The boycott of the boycott is heading to a whole new level. Can California really afford to take hits on their economy and now this?

    http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/lo...-94251079.html

  9. #126

    Default Re: AZ Immigration Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Chance174 View Post
    So Sully I am confused. The AZ law is basically just enforcing the federal law.....all immigrants are required to carry their papers by law (federal). So are you saying that we need to change the federal law too or just continue to not enforce it?
    Immigrants are required to carry their papers, citizens aren't. When a citizen in Arizona get's stopped and asked for his/her papers and doesn't have them (I never carry proof of legal residency) what happens?
    There's no such thing as a pretty good aligator wrestler.

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