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Thread: Immigration issue heating up

  1. #91
    World Champ ODH's Avatar
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    Default Re: Immigration issue heating up

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    I think every person should get a fair trial no matter what. We should not just throw people in jail without proving guilt. Nor should we deport people who have commited serious crimes here.
    Does that mean constitutional rights for accused terrorists?

  2. #92
    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
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    Default Re: Immigration issue heating up

    Quote Originally Posted by ODH View Post
    Does that mean constitutional rights for accused terrorists?
    No it does not I consider them to unlawful enemy combatants and they are not afforded the protections of our Constitution or the Geneva Code. They are subject to Military law and get a Military Tribunal that is all.
    Last edited by UGLY; 05-05-2010 at 07:35 AM.

  3. #93

    Default Re: Immigration issue heating up

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    I think every person should get a fair trial no matter what.
    So every person, including illegal immigrants, have the same constitutional right to a fair trial. What makes this right different than say the right to free speech? Where in the constitution does it say that the right to a fair trial is for everyone and the rest are only for citizens?
    There's no such thing as a pretty good aligator wrestler.

  4. #94

    Default Re: Immigration issue heating up

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    If you are here illegaly, havent you broken the law? What would be the point of a trial when you know they are here illegally
    How do you know they're here illegally without a trial?

    The point of trial is to determine guilt or innocence. Breaking immigration laws isn't different than breaking other laws, in the US you're presumed innocent.
    There's no such thing as a pretty good aligator wrestler.

  5. #95
    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
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    Default Re: Immigration issue heating up

    Quote Originally Posted by FloggingSully View Post
    How do you know they're here illegally without a trial?

    The point of trial is to determine guilt or innocence. Breaking immigration laws isn't different than breaking other laws, in the US you're presumed innocent.
    You know if they cant speak english or they dont have any ID. The only action that needs to be taken are the steps to determine citizenship or legal residency. If either can not be confirmed then they go back. Why would there be no record of someone living in the United states? There is a paper trail for everyone here legally.

  6. #96
    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
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    Default Re: Immigration issue heating up

    Quote Originally Posted by FloggingSully View Post
    So every person, including illegal immigrants, have the same constitutional right to a fair trial. What makes this right different than say the right to free speech? Where in the constitution does it say that the right to a fair trial is for everyone and the rest are only for citizens?
    I dont think it is a matter of constitutionality for me that everyone who commits a crime be given a fair trial. Its just the right thing to do.

    Our constitution was not written to protect anyone other than the citizens of this country. Where does it say that the constitution applies to everyone in the world, it does not. Certain protections are afforded to people because it is the right thing to do.

    What right do foreigners have to come here and speak out against our government or hold protest, IMO none.

  7. #97

    Default Re: Immigration issue heating up

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    You know if they cant speak english or they dont have any ID. The only action that needs to be taken are the steps to determine citizenship or legal residency.
    What, in your opinion makes illegal immigration different than other crimes in that it doesn't warrant a trial for those accused of it?
    There's no such thing as a pretty good aligator wrestler.

  8. #98

    Default Re: Immigration issue heating up

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    I dont think it is a matter of constitutionality for me that everyone who commits a crime be given a fair trial. Its just the right thing to do.
    We've been discussing whether rights are guaranteed to non-citizens in the constitution, what you think is the right thing to do is irrelevant.

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    Our constitution was not written to protect anyone other than the citizens of this country. Where does it say that the constitution applies to everyone in the world, it does not. Certain protections are afforded to people because it is the right thing to do.
    The constitution was written to protect everyone in the US.
    The first ammendment says 'Congress shall make no law' establishing religion, abridging free speech, etc. They can not pass any law doing these things, if they pass a law that says non-citizens can't speak out then they have, in fact, passed a law abridging free speech.
    The 3rd ammendment says no soldier shall 'be quartered in any house', if a soldier is quartered in a non-citizens house then the law has been broken, it doesn't say no soldiers shall be quartered in houses owned by citizens...
    Shall I go on?

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    What right do foreigners have to come here and speak out against our government or hold protest, IMO none.
    According to the recent supremem court ruling, not only is citizenship not a requirement for free speech, you don't even have to be a person.
    There's no such thing as a pretty good aligator wrestler.

  9. #99

    Default Re: Immigration issue heating up

    Quote Originally Posted by FloggingSully View Post
    So every person, including illegal immigrants, have the same constitutional right to a fair trial. What makes this right different than say the right to free speech? Where in the constitution does it say that the right to a fair trial is for everyone and the rest are only for citizens?
    The bottom line is some of our laws do not apply to those who are here illegally....for instance the right to bear arms is a perfect example.

    These criminals are not afforded all the laws and constitutional rights. These people are criminals and therefore do not have the same rights as you and me or those here legally.

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