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Thread: One step closer to Socialism leaning to Communism

  1. #37
    World Champ ODH's Avatar
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    Default Re: One step closer to Socialism leaning to Communism

    Quote Originally Posted by Flop The Nuts View Post
    Yes, as I said, it is a loss to the hospital. If someone is uninsured, the hospital gets zero.
    So in the end the hospital has top make up those losses and they do that by charging their paying (insured) customers more and the insurers cover their costs by raising premiums and reducing coverage.

    I understand the objection to being force to covered, but I have not heard a realistic conservative alternative.
    My alternative would be government sponsored health care.

  2. #38
    World Champ ODH's Avatar
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    Default Re: One step closer to Socialism leaning to Communism

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    You know I do understand why some people would want this reform. What I dont understand is why because you have an issue I have to pay for it without being given a choice. There is a way for more people to get affordable coverage without forcing the people to pay for something they dont want. There have been other proposals put out there but the democrats would not listen to anyone. This will be accepted in a few years because everybody likes a hand out (except the guy who has to pay for others handouts) what happens when the expensive portions of this bill kick in 2013 and we are thrust back into recession.
    We have to pay for all sorts of things with minimal say. I was opposed to the Iraq invasion and yet still had to pay for it.
    As far as the Democrats not listening, the Republicans wehave been hugely successfull in making political gain from this issue and would never have supported any reform. They were not serious about getting reform done.


    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    ...

    I need to look at the financing of this bill a little more because I have been hearing about some number fudging on the part of the dems to the CBO.

    Only real chance of revoking this bill anytime soon is for congress to say it is unconstitutional to make people buy a product, hopefully it works.
    Do you feel you are more qualified to examine the finances of the bill than the CBO? My understanding is that the CBO is an independant organization. I know that they have put out numbers that have displeaased both this admininistration and the Bush administration before it.

    I think you know this, but Congress can't say a bill is unconstitutional, that is up to the courts.

  3. #39

    Default Re: One step closer to Socialism leaning to Communism

    Quote Originally Posted by ODH View Post
    I understand the objection to being force to covered, but I have not heard a realistic conservative alternative.
    My alternative would be government sponsored health care.
    How about we just scrap the whole (or at least most of) insurance thing and move towards a system where people pay for their service instead of paying a 3rd party to pay for it. Require healthcare providers to make prices known and to charge everyone the same amount for their services, require insurance to pay out a certain amount of money for a service instead of only paying for services by providers who've agreed to accept that amount.

    This way there's presure on providers to keep prices down and keep service high. Currently there is very little downward pressure on the cost of healthcare.

    Although, I think some sort of catastrophe coverage should be mandated or provided by the gov.
    There's no such thing as a pretty good aligator wrestler.

  4. #40

    Default Re: One step closer to Socialism leaning to Communism

    Quote Originally Posted by ODH View Post
    I think you know this, but Congress can't say a bill is unconstitutional, that is up to the courts.
    According to factcheck, there has never been a law requireing people to buy a good, and since it's never been done before the constitutionality has never been examined by the courts.
    There's no such thing as a pretty good aligator wrestler.

  5. #41
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    Default Re: One step closer to Socialism leaning to Communism

    Quote Originally Posted by FloggingSully View Post
    How about we just scrap the whole (or at least most of) insurance thing and move towards a system where people pay for their service instead of paying a 3rd party to pay for it. Require healthcare providers to make prices known and to charge everyone the same amount for their services, require insurance to pay out a certain amount of money for a service instead of only paying for services by providers who've agreed to accept that amount.

    This way there's presure on providers to keep prices down and keep service high. Currently there is very little downward pressure on the cost of healthcare.

    Although, I think some sort of catastrophe coverage should be mandated or provided by the gov.
    I like it. I think health insurance should be more like car insurance. You pay for upkeep and and small expenses, but have insurance in case something catastrophic happens. I also believe it would drive down costs and reduce consumption of medical services.

    This seems to be too big of a change for both the health insurance industry and for most people who don't expect to pay out of pocket for health care.

    Is this a Republican proposal?

  6. #42

    Default Re: One step closer to Socialism leaning to Communism

    It would make too much sense for Republicans to propose it.
    There's no such thing as a pretty good aligator wrestler.

  7. #43
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    Default Re: One step closer to Socialism leaning to Communism

    It is a somewhat lengthy article, but is very interesting alternative approach to health care reform. I would favor something along these lines:http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/...y-father/7617/

    I don't think we can really improve health care by just squeezing the health insurers more (seems to be the main thrust of this bill) and tweaking the current system where most people get insurance through their employers and are far removed from the true costs of health care.
    Last edited by ODH; 03-23-2010 at 03:09 PM.

  8. #44
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    Default Re: One step closer to Socialism leaning to Communism

    Quote Originally Posted by ODH View Post
    We have to pay for all sorts of things with minimal say. I was opposed to the Iraq invasion and yet still had to pay for it.
    As far as the Democrats not listening, the Republicans wehave been hugely successfull in making political gain from this issue and would never have supported any reform. They were not serious about getting reform done.




    Do you feel you are more qualified to examine the finances of the bill than the CBO? My understanding is that the CBO is an independant organization. I know that they have put out numbers that have displeased both this admininistration and the Bush administration before it.

    I think you know this, but Congress can't say a bill is unconstitutional, that is up to the courts.
    The constitution gives the government the right to declare war and the right to use tax dollars to pay for it, so it is exressed in the constitution. You are not having to go out and buy toilet paper for the soldiers. These are completely different issues.

    I dont think I am better than the CBO but there have been complaints because the CBO has to give its analysis based on the papers given to them by the Dems and there is concern that the numbers might have been fudged going to the CBO. So the numbers the CBO gave out might be off because they got bad info. I dont think the CBO did a bad job.

  9. #45
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    Default Re: One step closer to Socialism leaning to Communism

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    The constitution gives the government the right to declare war and the right to use tax dollars to pay for it, so it is exressed in the constitution. You are not having to go out and buy toilet paper for the soldiers. These are completely different issues.

    I dont think I am better than the CBO but there have been complaints because the CBO has to give its analysis based on the papers given to them by the Dems and there is concern that the numbers might have been fudged going to the CBO. So the numbers the CBO gave out might be off because they got bad info. I dont think the CBO did a bad job.
    If we are going to play it strictly by the constitution, only Congress has the right to declare war and this has not happened since WWII.

    Doesn't the CBO have the right to audit the info given to them?
    I know nothing about the office or process, but it seems unbelievable that the Democrats would give them fudged numbers and they either would not have the ability or the power to figure them out and reject them.

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