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Thread: Republicans do have solutions

  1. #28

    Default Re: Republicans do have solutions

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    I believe this plan addresses everything you mentioned especially the deficit. The uninsured could purchase insurance with health care tax credits.
    So, instead of taking tax money and using it to buy insurance for poor people, we're going to take tax money and give it to poor people on the condition that they use it to buy insurance? that sounds like 6 of one, half dozen of the other to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    WUW do you think that the republicans should just get on board with the dems even when they dont believe in the legislation at all and neither do 80% of the American people. If the dems would come to the table willing to negotiate a little bit maybe I would see your point. Lets see Obama, Pelosi and Reid come from the far far left closer to the center and I am sure something can get done. I dont know why the republicans would help pass something that nobody including the people wants.

    We will see how willing the dems are to make a deal when they lose their large majorities in the congress.
    I don't think anyone should jump on board with this plan since it does nothing to address the fundamental problem that health care costs a ton, but the dems have made several concessions (they dropped the whole government run program to compete with the private sector thing didn't they?) and I'm not aware of any concessions the republicans have made.
    There's no such thing as a pretty good aligator wrestler.

  2. #29

    Default Re: Republicans do have solutions

    You guys got me to dig though the old mail and look this stuff up.

    Too bad I can't make heads or tails from this statement.

    It looks like stocks were bought on July 1 and January 1.

    The shares were indeed bought at a discount.
    One time the fair market value was $30.48 and shares were bought at $20.33.
    The next time was market value was $25.16 and shares were bought at $21.39.

    I can't figure out how they determine the discount, but it clearly states share are bought at a discount.

    Also, the stocks must be held for 2 years and there is a limit (I think 6% of salary) on how much stock you can buy.

    The company is UNH. http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=unh

  3. #30
    Olympic Champ kr1963's Avatar
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    Default Re: Republicans do have solutions

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    Please Read . link about his health care plan.

    http://www.house.gov/ryan/issuepaper...ssuepaper.html

    Aside from this Ryan has proposed a straight forward tax plan, couples making less than 100,000 per year pay 10% under 50,000 a year for singles. Those making more than 100,000 would pay 25% and singles making more than 50k. Eliminating the death, capitol gains and other frivolous taxes. A corporate tax rate of 8%. No deductions no penalties just pay the taxes, straight forward and simple. No loop holes for companies to hide behind and no way for lower income Americans to ride the coat tails of the rich. The rich would still pay the large majority of taxes.
    That's all well & good but the IRS is something that was not in the original constitution to begin with. Income tax is one of the major themes off of Marxism. It is an oppressive agency that robs people of their rights.

    If you are going to have any sort of tax they only fair tax is a consumption tax. All states but one have it. But if you are a strict constitutionalist then you understand this.

    Any real health care has to include programs that are non-pharmaceutical in it's base. If you want any sort of medical treatment that is not surgery/pharma based then no insurance plan will pay for it. That puts the medical industry ALL under the control of a few companies.

    That is not right. The current system is a joke.

  4. #31
    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
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    Default Re: Republicans do have solutions

    Quote Originally Posted by kr1963 View Post
    That's all well & good but the IRS is something that was not in the original constitution to begin with. Income tax is one of the major themes off of Marxism. It is an oppressive agency that robs people of their rights.

    If you are going to have any sort of tax they only fair tax is a consumption tax. All states but one have it. But if you are a strict constitutionalist then you understand this.

    Any real health care has to include programs that are non-pharmaceutical in it's base. If you want any sort of medical treatment that is not surgery/pharma based then no insurance plan will pay for it. That puts the medical industry ALL under the control of a few companies.

    That is not right. The current system is a joke.
    If I am a strict constitutionalists I know that eh constitution gives the congress the right to tax in order to provide for the well being of its people, to pay for stuff like armies, navies, air force, congress you know the ability for the government to function Article 1 section 2 says that taxes are apportioned through out the states but the sixteenth amendment has been interpreted by the supreme court to allow the Gov. to tax personal income. Now if you are really a strict constitutionalists you know that what the supreme court says is what goes, like it or not. I am all for the fair tax but we will never see it.

  5. #32
    Olympic Champ kr1963's Avatar
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    Default Re: Republicans do have solutions

    We'll never see it if THAT is the attitude that people take. People get the government that they DESERVE. You think that just because there IS a constitution that we should get a constitional republic by default? NO. The price of freedom is CONSTANT ALERTNESS CONSTANT WILLINGNESS TO FIGHT BACK.

    In the military they pledge to fight enemies both foreign & domestic. The domestic threat to our own freedoms is greater then anything abroad.

    If you look away from the face of "conventional wisdom" and go into agreement with tyranny then that is what you will get.

    I for one choose not to look away. The IRS is communism period. They take away people's property & rights without due process. THAT is Unconstitutional.

    Our way of life existed WITHOUT Income tax for 137 years without any problem. It started with just a little tax & it has grown into this unconfrontable monster.

    The GOP was originally the party of Lincoln. The bankers hijacked in 1896. The Neocons hijacked now & we let them. It doesn't matter what health care reform you look it, it will always INCLUDE Big Pharma & Insurance companies UNTIL you say NO.

    If you don't demand something different you will get more of the same.

  6. #33
    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
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    Default Re: Republicans do have solutions

    Governments only work with the consent of its people, that is how it has always been. The fact is that a constitutional republic is the closest thing to a democracy that has ever worked and it has worked well. Why would you want to fight against the only type of democracy proven to work.

    I guess you can call taxes communist but a government has to tax in order to operate, the founders believed in a certain amount of taxation. If the Government did not tax they would be a business and then you would really be up a creek.

    When the civil war broke out they imposed a 3% income tax to help pay for the war. When we entered into WWII they put a 90% tax on the people to pay for the war and after that tehy knew they needed to keep the tax in order to pay for stuff.

    P.S. Nobody likes to pay taxes but we understand we need to.

    I am all for small Government but taxes are essential in order to pay for it. If you are against taxation I hope you dont send your kids to public school or call the police, or hope someone fights for you when we go to war. Don't contact your congressional representative because your taxes go to fund all of those things. I hope you dont like national forests because it takes tax dollars to preserve them.

  7. #34
    Olympic Champ kr1963's Avatar
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    Default Re: Republicans do have solutions

    Who said I was fighting this form of government? I am fighting for IT big time. The guys who have been in power for the last 100 years have been slowly eroding away at our freedoms. It is very plain to see.

    The first income tax created in 1862 was thrown out of the Supreme court in 1895 as Unconstitutional. It was an attack on Lincoln's government because he dared have the US government (gasp) print their own money, (the original greenback) but the bankers persisted.

    Once the bankers got in charge of printing the money & created a central bank in 1913, which all of the founding fathers warned us against, they then created the Income tax in 1916 which is a Marxist idea pure & simple. Read The Communist Manifesto. That's where you will find it. NOT in our constitution!

    It had grown into a progressive tax which penalizes production & rewards non-production meaning the more you make the higher your tax rate is which is of course crazy.

    The WWII tax you speak of WAS NOT on the people so check your facts. It was on excessive profits on companies. The accepted rate of return for companies in the WWII was 10%. Anything over that was taxed @ 90% by the socialist Roosevelt. they did the similar thing during the first WW & the Korean war. You forget WAR is big business.

    So apparently you have a misunderstanding about taxing. The founders believed in representation of the voice of the people in the use of their money. The IRS only uses that money to pay the interest on the loans that the Fed gave to the US Government.

    Gas is taxed. Tires are taxed. Cigarettes are taxed ALL in addition to state sales taxes. We are taxed to death & then the bankers create INFLATION which is really another hidden tax as the money becomes worth less then it was. Originally the government flourished on taxes on alcohol, transport vehicles, sugar cane, tobacco, auction sales, corporate bonds, (& YES even slaves). We had NO income tax we didn't need one.

    Andrew Jackson once said, "You tell me that if I take the deposits from the bank and annul its charter, I shall ruin ten thousand families. That may be true, gentlemen, but that is your sin! Should I let you go on, you will ruin fifty thousand families, and that would be my sin! You are a den of vipers and thieves!"

    I think it is ironic that he is on the $20 bill but he was right.

    Jefferson said: "I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. Already they have raised up a monied aristocracy that has set the government at defiance. The issuing power (of money) should be taken away from the banks and restored to the people to whom it properly belongs."

    I think those guys had it right. They fought the tyranny of the English to escape what we have put back into place out of fear & ignorance.

    I am against the IRS not taxation. I am against illegal taxations. We are taxed to death & no one strictly oversees the spending. We have NO representation as congress votes for things that continue to line the pockets of the vested interests. Themselves included.

    The Defense contractors are some of the worst offenders. So is Big Pharma. There is NO regulation as DC & Industry have a revolving door so it is all one big happy family. Pharma guys hire former FDA board members & the FDA appoints former Pharma board members. It is a joke.

    Lobbyists run DC not the politicians. No bill gets passed that favors US. It always favors the vested interests that paid the most to the committee chairs on the hill.

    No health care reform will ever create a system that will benefit the people. It will only put more profits into the insurers & big pharmas pockets. Read the bills. They are filled with code & double speak to confuse people into thinking they are getting a good deal.

    Bush was a joke & Obama IS a joke. Both men were & are OWNED. read the GOP & Democratic bills on health care. You will be shocked.

  8. #35
    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
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    Default Re: Republicans do have solutions

    Read the Federalist if you want to know what the founders thought about taxation.

    Name one nation in the history of the world that has not taxed.

    We are taxed to death because we have allowed the government to expand.

    So I looked up you so called facts here is a brief history from Wiki but other sites confirm, and you seem to be wrong on all counts.

    The apportionment requirement made income taxes on property practically impossible, and Congress did not want to limit the income tax solely to a tax on wages. Therefore, in 1909 Congress proposed the Sixteenth Amendment, which became part of the Constitution in 1913 when it was ratified by the required number of states. The Amendment modified the requirement for apportionment of direct taxes by exempting all income taxes—whether considered direct or indirect—from the apportionment requirement. Congress re-adopted the income tax that same year, levying a 1% tax on net personal incomes above $3,000, with a 6% surtax on incomes above $500,000. By 1918, the top rate of the income tax was increased to 77% (on income over $1,000,000) to finance World War I. The top marginal tax rate was reduced to 58% in 1922, to 25% in 1925, and finally to 24% in 1929. In 1932 the top marginal tax rate was increased to 63% during the Great Depression and steadily increased, reaching 94% (on all income over $200,000) in 1945. During World War II, Congress introduced payroll withholding and quarterly tax payments, Franklin D. Roosevelt tried to impose a 100% tax on all incomes over $25,000 to help with the war effort. Top marginal tax rates stayed near or above 90% until 1964 when the top marginal tax rate was lowered to 70%.

    That tax rate was lowered by Kennedy, who would have thought that. The hero of the Dem party cuts tax rates.

    I dont know how much I can keep this up because you seem to be a conspiracy theorist and a hard line libertarian. Next thing I know you are going to bring up how the Free masons rule the world and I cant handle that kind of stuff.

  9. #36
    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
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    Default Re: Republicans do have solutions

    This web site shows all the tax rates in us history funny thing top tax rate in 1935 was 69%. That would be during the depression. Raised from 25% in 1931.

    http://www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/151.html

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