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Thread: Hell

  1. #28
    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hell

    Quote Originally Posted by Zapp Brannigan View Post
    Let me add this to the discussion: My father was raised Jewish and would probably be best described now as Deist with Jewish tendencies. He's also probably the best man I've ever known. I have a hard time seeing him being sent to an eternity of damnation because he prays differently.

    I believe that Jews are special case. God has repeatedly stepped in for the Jews and has never turned them away. I believe in the end the Jews will be saved.

  2. #29

    Default Re: Hell

    I believe religions to be a man-made constructs. That should explain all, I guess.

    Religions have been a useful tool for those who would lead.

    Power through the influence of authority.

    I don't mind religions. For every negative asssociation, one can cite a positive.

    Just don't step on my toes, please.
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  3. #30
    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hell

    Quote Originally Posted by sgallan View Post
    Fair enough, but to be perfectly honest I do not think highly of a posited God that sets up a system where vast majority of humanity (many many millions who are terrific people), don't get into this "heaven". I really wouldn't want to spend an eternity with such an entity, but that is just me.
    I can see what you are saying. I would only say that God does not choose who goes and who does not, we do. No matter what faith it is, you have the ability to make the choice to believe or not. Like any other decision in life each comes with consequence or reward. If you choose to accept Christ in the Christian faith than you have chosen to follow Gods law as best you can and reap the reward attached to it. If you choose to deny Christ and not to obey the law then you choose the consequence of hell.

    Now we can go all Pascal with it but I find it a circular and meaningless argument. I dont believe that the reward of heaven should be the reason you believe in Christ although it is one reason , I think that if the fear of hell is the only motivating factor in your faith than it really is not a good thing. I respect you guys who do not believe, I just want to help avoid the oncoming bus and then let you see what more it is about.

  4. #31

    Default Re: Hell

    Quote Originally Posted by sgallan View Post
    Fair enough, but to be perfectly honest I do not think highly of a posited God that sets up a system where vast majority of humanity (many many millions who are terrific people), don't get into this "heaven". I really wouldn't want to spend an eternity with such an entity, but that is just me.
    I will take you one step further - I have no use for a god that, supposedly being omniscient and omnipotent, can allow "his" people to experience the things I have seen people go through. Don't give me the crap of people having free will, or original sin, or gods working in mysterious ways. Small children with horrific diseases, famine, flood, fire, pestilence, war - an omnipotent god who allows this is not a god that I would want anything to do with.

    R.I.P. Cyrano and Roxanne.

  5. #32

    Default Re: Hell

    Quote Originally Posted by Spider View Post
    It's me, too.

    Ditto.

  6. #33
    Ancient Arachnid Spider's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hell

    Quote Originally Posted by arm-spin View Post

    For non-believers: do you ever worry about actually encountering God (ie after death) or are you pretty certain in your non-belief?

    I'm pretty certain in my non-belief, but am prepared to defend the life I've lead if called upon to do so, so I have no fear of the afterlife.
    Atrophy: what you get when you win atournament.

  7. #34
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    Default Re: Hell

    Believers usually answer arguments like those of Sgallan and M Richardson by saying that God's plan is unknowable to man and we must have faith in God's omnipotence and infinite knowledge. "Your parents know what's best for you even if you don't." When I studied philosophy and logic in college, we called this a "shut-up argument." It means that I won't be logical, so don't even bother trying to argue with me.

    I agree with LkwdSteve that religion originated as man's attempts to understand a world or universe that his technology was incapable of explaining. Beyond that, it became a tool to comfort and give hope to those who could otherwise find none in their circumstances. As science and technology developed, the initial function of religion became less important (evolution replacing creationism for those rational individuals who trust objective evidence), but the emotional function of religion remained. Unfortunately, this has been exploited by many religious leaders, from ayatollahs, who would exterminate those who believe differently from them, to Popes, who would seek to impose their narrow brand of morality on the entire world. Much good has been done in the name of religion, but I believe that it is more than offset by the evil.

    Imagine there's no heaven
    It's easy if you try
    No hell below us
    Above us only sky

    . . . And no religion too
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  8. #35
    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hell

    Quote Originally Posted by M Richardson View Post
    I will take you one step further - I have no use for a god that, supposedly being omniscient and omnipotent, can allow "his" people to experience the things I have seen people go through. Don't give me the crap of people having free will, or original sin, or gods working in mysterious ways. Small children with horrific diseases, famine, flood, fire, pestilence, war - an omnipotent god who allows this is not a god that I would want anything to do with.
    So you would rather be a drone without the ability to think for yourself and make decisions.

    Other than natural disaster and some disease all are man made, so according to your logic you should want nothing to do with people either, because not only do we allow these horrible things to happen, we willingly cause them to happen.

  9. #36
    Olympic Champ kr1963's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hell

    Quote Originally Posted by M Richardson View Post
    I will take you one step further - I have no use for a god that, supposedly being omniscient and omnipotent, can allow "his" people to experience the things I have seen people go through. Don't give me the crap of people having free will, or original sin, or gods working in mysterious ways. Small children with horrific diseases, famine, flood, fire, pestilence, war - an omnipotent god who allows this is not a god that I would want anything to do with.

    This argument apparently operates with a definition of "God" that stems from the Christian Bible's old testament. But what if "God" existed in way that did not assign the entirety of causation to that entity?

    What if it was true that you were a spiritual being but still responsible for your own existence? Where would that leave most people?

    And what if there was a chance for some sort of spiritual enlightenment and/or salvation but it did not depend upon "faith" nor belief in a Supreme being?

    I only say this as I believe most of the faith vs science argument is polarizing & splits the world into 2 camps only when there are many more arguments then just two.

    The eastern view takes the all knowing all causative "God" out of the equation & puts salvation in your hands, for example.

    Just a thought....

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