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Thread: Hell

  1. #19

    Default Re: Hell

    quinn: Accepting the Lord as your Saviour is the only way to get to Heaven. It is not done by treating others with respect or honesty

    Guess it depends what part of the Bible you read.. that sentiment is certainly expressed in Scripture, but then there's that story about the Sheep and the Goats where the entrance requirement for heaven is "I was hungry and you fed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was in prison and you visited me" and so on.
    http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...46&version=NIV

    Ugly: I believe everyone has the ability to accept Christ
    How can you say this when there are people on Earth that have not heard about Christ in any meaningful way?


    Sgallan: I don't believe in heaven or hell. And for the fervent believers who think I am going there despite how I have lived my life; I wouldn't want to go to any posited heaven with those folks, nor their version of God. That would be, well....... a version of hell
    I've heard some theologians (CS Lewis comes to mind) describe hell that way, as a place for people who wouldn't want to be in heaven with God.

    Sgallan again: are to many variations of God, often giving entirely contradictorial "because I said so" type rules and regs, to be able to wrap my mind around just one. You have many variations of all the major religions, and what they teach are very different.

    This one gets me as well. It is my belief that God loves humanity and wants to forgive and accept us, therefore doesn't get too bogged down in the details of what we believe exactly. I hope I am correct in my belief.

  2. #20
    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hell

    Ugly: I believe everyone has the ability to accept Christ

    Arm-Spin: How can you say this when there are people on Earth that have not heard about Christ in any meaningful way?

    Arm Spin the Bible says all will here the word of God.

  3. #21

    Default Re: Hell

    How do you foresee that working? it is a fact that huge numbers of people have died without exposure to the Christian message. Do you think that people will meet Christ after death and have a chance to accept him? Or that people who have never heard of Christ can still somehow accept Christ? Or do you have another solution?

  4. #22
    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hell

    I dont know how it works just what it says. I have a feeling that if for some reason someone has not heard the message they are given a crash course by JC himself but I have know idea

  5. #23
    Super Moderator Zapp Brannigan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hell

    Let me add this to the discussion: My father was raised Jewish and would probably be best described now as Deist with Jewish tendencies. He's also probably the best man I've ever known. I have a hard time seeing him being sent to an eternity of damnation because he prays differently.
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  6. #24

    Default Re: Hell

    Arm-spin, you ask good questions. These are the same questions that I asked before I was saved. I am not even close to a preacher, but I can answer the question you posed to me about what part of the Bible you need to read to get into heaven.

    When God sent Jesus to save us, he knew what his Son was going to endure and wouldn't have allowed it unless it offered what he wanted all of us to have. The ONLY way to get to Heaven is to accept Jesus as your Saviour. It is said many times and clears away all the other rules that were set forth before he came. Not that that stuff wasn't important, it all led to Jesus and our salvation if we choose it.

    As far as people not believing or choosing a different religion, they go to Hell. That is not me saying it, it is the Bible. I hope everyone finds the way to Heaven, but He gives free will so you can believe what you choose.

    As far as people not ever hearing of him, I don't know. I do know that children too young to make any decision are still loved, so I hope those who have never heard are too. Although, He did say to go out and spread the word and people have so I doubt there are many who haven't at least heard the message.

    But saying only God knows is not a cop-out. It really is the truth.

    And whoever said that they are an adult now so they want to know, good point. But if you are God and have been around FOREVER, to Him you still are a child. It is one of the hardest things to ever accept. I am still dealing with it and so are most Christians that I know.

    Good topic!!!

  7. #25
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    Default Re: Hell

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    I dont know what happens to people who dont go to heaven. They could end up in a burning hell next so Sam Kinison or might only be a separation from God and no real suffering beyond what we already experience. I have know way to know. I will guess it is worse than what we have here, a life of complete emptiness, without Love.

    Since I am a Christian I of course believe that only Christians go to heaven. I believe everyone has the ability to accept Christ and go to heaven but not all will. I dont believe there is a limit on the number of people who can go.

    When it comes to non-believers I obviously believe you dont go to heaven, to believe otherwise would go against my belief. That is not to say that I dont want you to believe or that I dont want you in Heaven. I believe Pen Jillette said that if I believed he was going to he would want me or whoever to tell him relentlessly, even though he did not believe. He said if you knew someone was going to get hit by a bus you should do what you can to prevent it, the same goes for hell. If you choose to deny my help and you walk in front of the bus I cant do much for you and it is not personal. What is personal is that I do want everyone to believe and gain a place in heaven.
    Fair enough, but to be perfectly honest I do not think highly of a posited God that sets up a system where vast majority of humanity (many many millions who are terrific people), don't get into this "heaven". I really wouldn't want to spend an eternity with such an entity, but that is just me.
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  8. #26
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    Default Re: Hell

    Quote Originally Posted by sgallan View Post
    Fair enough, but to be perfectly honest I do not think highly of a posited God that sets up a system where vast majority of humanity (many many millions who are terrific people), don't get into this "heaven". I really wouldn't want to spend an eternity with such an entity, but that is just me.
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  9. #27

    Default Re: Hell

    Quote Originally Posted by Zapp Brannigan View Post
    Let me add this to the discussion: My father was raised Jewish and would probably be best described now as Deist with Jewish tendencies. He's also probably the best man I've ever known. I have a hard time seeing him being sent to an eternity of damnation because he prays differently.
    People like your father is why, despite my traditional Christian upbringing, I question the simple formulaic view that Christian = heaven, non Christian - hell. The formula is simple and straightforward, and I think it contains some truth, but it can't be the whole story. People are complex, people's belief is complex and God is gracious.

    For non-believers: do you ever worry about actually encountering God (ie after death) or are you pretty certain in your non-belief?

    For Christians: I think the Bible is a little bit more complex than the Christian = heaven, non Christian = hell formula as well. In addition to the previous Bible chapter, I posted, here are a couple more to wrestle with:
    Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. <sup id="en-NIV-23339" class="versenum">22</sup>Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' (Matthew 7:21-22. Does this indicate that belief is not enough?)

    And from Romans 11: <sup id="en-NIV-28225" class="versenum">3</sup>Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, <sup id="en-NIV-28226" class="versenum">31</sup>so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now<sup class="footnote" value="[<a href=&quot;#fen-NIV-28226h&quot; title=&quot;See footnote h&quot;>h</a>]">[h]</sup><sup id="en-NIV-28227" class="versenum">32</sup>For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
    receive mercy as a result of God's mercy to you. (Does this indicate that the salvation of all people is only a matter of time?)

    Hell isn't just a difficult subject morally. It is also hard to find one clear and consistent Biblical view on hell.

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