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Thread: Global Warming ? Hmmmm, not so fast there

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  1. #1
    Olympic Champ RYou's Avatar
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    Default Global Warming ? Hmmmm, not so fast there

    Hacked emails add fuel to climate dispute
    Hackers steal, release electronic data from top climate research center

    WASHINGTON - Hackers broke into the electronic files of one of the world's foremost climate research centers this week and posted an array of e-mails in which prominent scientists engaged in a blunt discussion of global warming research and disparaged climate-change skeptics.

    The skeptics have seized upon e-mails stolen from the Climatic Research Unit of the University of East Anglia in Britain as evidence that scientific data have been rigged to make it appear as if humans are causing global warming. The researchers, however, say the e-mails have been taken out of context and merely reflect an honest exchange of ideas.

    University officials confirmed the data breach, which involves more than 1,000 e-mails and 3,000 documents, but said they could not say how many of the stolen items were authentic.

    "We are aware that information from a server in one area of the university has been made available on public websites," the statement says. "We are extremely concerned that personal information about individuals may have been compromised. Because of the volume of this information we cannot currently confirm what proportion of this material is genuine."

    Michael E. Mann, who directs the Earth System Science Center at Pennsylvania State University, said in a telephone interview from Paris that skeptics are "taking these words totally out of context to make something trivial appear nefarious."

    In one e-mail from 1999, the center's director, Phil Jones, alludes to one of Mann's articles in the journal Nature and writes, "I've just completed Mike's Nature trick of adding in the real temps to each series for the last 20 years (i.e., from 1981 onwards) and from 1961 for Keith's to hide the decline."

    Mann said the "trick" Jones referred to was placing a chart of proxy temperature records, which ended in 1980, next to a line showing the temperature record collected by instruments from that time onward. "It's hardly anything you would call a trick," Mann said, adding that both charts were differentiated and clearly marked.
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  2. #2

    Default Re: Global Warming ? Hmmmm, not so fast there

    If humans caused global warming then how did the Ice Age end? It is just the natural cycles that the earth goes through and always has. Although, it has made Al Gore a ton of money. Which he spends on the enormous energy bills in his mansion and the jet fuel for his personal jet.

    One of their funnier claims is that if the glaciers melt then the seas will rise and flood shorelines. Have you ever put an ice cube in a glass of water? The level rises when you first drop it in, but when it melts the level stays the same because the mass is the same. Glaciers are already in the water, so the melting will change nothing. But they won't tell you that.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Global Warming ? Hmmmm, not so fast there

    Quote Originally Posted by quinn14 View Post
    Glaciers are already in the water, so the melting will change nothing.
    You better do a Google on that one.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Global Warming ? Hmmmm, not so fast there

    Quote Originally Posted by quinn14 View Post
    One of their funnier claims is that if the glaciers melt then the seas will rise and flood shorelines. Have you ever put an ice cube in a glass of water? The level rises when you first drop it in, but when it melts the level stays the same because the mass is the same. Glaciers are already in the water, so the melting will change nothing. But they won't tell you that.
    When the ice cube in a glass of water melts the level of the water will actually decrease, as water expands when it's frozen in your freezer. The ice in glaciers isn't the same as what comes out of your ice cube trays (I remember a lecture on it in college, but I'm fuzzy on the specifics) in that the temperature or pressure or salinity that glaciers are formed at cause the water to contract instead of expand when frozen (the way just about every other liquid behaves when frozen).
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    Default Re: Global Warming ? Hmmmm, not so fast there

    I don't think I need to google anything. Glaciers are in the water. A fact that no one will dispute. If you do dispute it, then YOU google it and prove me wrong. That's another thing that global warming people like to do, make others do all the work.

    Why, in the 70's did the "scientists" say that we were about to have another ice age due to global cooling? Then it became global warming. Now it's climate change. Come on, you all can't be that naive.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Global Warming ? Hmmmm, not so fast there

    Okay, I caved and googled it for you. Here it is.

    In short, it doesn't. When floating ice melts, it doesn't change the level of the water it was floating in. As you are probably aware, ice is less dense that liquid water; that's why ice floats. When ice melts, it becomes denser; the same mass fits into a smaller volume. The change in volume exactly offsets the extra bit of the ice that was sticking up above the water's surface. Don't believe me? Try this: place some ice in a cup of water, and make a mark at the waterline. Wait for the ice to melt. Check the new water level. It won't change!
    So, although melting sea ice is both an indicator of and a contributor to climate change, it does not alter sea level.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Global Warming ? Hmmmm, not so fast there

    Glaciers also exist on land. Meltwater from those can raise water levels.

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    Olympic Champ RYou's Avatar
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    Default Re: Global Warming ? Hmmmm, not so fast there

    MIghty Quinny....glaciers evolve in the highlands then flow like river downhill often to the ocean or river that flows to the ocean.


    The glacier can extend into the body of water, but will eventually break off. Those large chunks become ice floes (bergs). The issue at hand is the melting of the glaciers before they reach a body of water. Not all ice floes evolve from glaciers. That majority have broken off the polar ice cap.

    You are correct though, a berg will not increase the volume of water it is already displacing.

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    Default Re: Global Warming ? Hmmmm, not so fast there

    Thank you Ryou and Arm-spin.

    There's little doubt that the glaciers are melting, they have plenty of evidence. There is also plenty of evidence that the ice packs on Greenland and Antarctica are melting as well. As that continues, it will add millions of gallons of water to ocean levels. How much that will affect coastlines around the world is unknown.

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