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Thread: Gay marriage? Not in Maine.

  1. #19

    Default Re: Gay marriage? Not in Maine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zapp Brannigan View Post
    You're making a logically flawed argument. He's not being discriminated against based on his gender, he's being discriminated against based on his sexual preference. You're really stretching to try and include one under the other.
    If John wants to marry Bill because of his gender. A woman is allowed to marry Bill but a man isn't. I strait person or a gay person could marry Bill, sexual preference is not what's preventing someone from marrying Bill, gender is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zapp Brannigan View Post
    There are some states that are passing laws that put homosexuals as a protected class under their state constitutions, which is perfectly legal. If those laws get passed in a state, then a gay marriage ban would be deemed unconstitutonal.
    Maybe someone with a law background can confirm this, but I'm pretty sure you don't have to be a protected class for it to be unconstitutional to take your rights away. If a state voted in a law that banned people under 5'2'' from being teachers I'd imagine it would be deemed unconstitutional in court even though people under 5'2'' are not a protected class.
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  2. #20
    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gay marriage? Not in Maine.

    I agree with Zap and I believe that he is a lawyer.

  3. #21
    Super Moderator Zapp Brannigan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gay marriage? Not in Maine.

    Quote Originally Posted by FloggingSully View Post
    If John wants to marry Bill because of his gender. A woman is allowed to marry Bill but a man isn't. I strait person or a gay person could marry Bill, sexual preference is not what's preventing someone from marrying Bill, gender is.
    The fact that Bill is a man is pure happenstance. It isn't gender biased. It's not like men are allowed to marry men, but women aren't allowed to marry women. The discrimination is based on the fact that Bill or Sharon wants to marry someone of the same sex. It's about their sexual preference, not their gender. You're looking at it from a reversed angle. There's a reason courts have ruled the way they have.


    Maybe someone with a law background can confirm this, but I'm pretty sure you don't have to be a protected class for it to be unconstitutional to take your rights away. If a state voted in a law that banned people under 5'2'' from being teachers I'd imagine it would be deemed unconstitutional in court even though people under 5'2'' are not a protected class.
    It doesn't, depending on the rights. To be unconstitutional, the rights taken away have to be provided for by the Constitution. Homosexuals, whether you like it or not, are not protected under the federal Constitution, nor under most state constitutions.
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  4. #22
    Olympic Champ kr1963's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gay marriage? Not in Maine.

    Zapp's legal argument is completely right. If homosexuals are so concerned about their right as a group, with that group being classified by sexual preference then they should band together & seek a constitutional amendment.

    By the same token that amendment would have to protect the sexual preference rights of heterosexuals as well.

    The rest of the debate is just moral, not legal.

    Gays seek marriage as a way of legitimizing their lifestyle. I find 2 things very funny & interesting:

    1) I beleive that by informal poll that only about 1 to 2 % of the US population calls itself gay. I find it interesting that such a smaller minority sucks up a disportionate amount of attention in the media.

    2) The main thing a marriage gives you is the LEGAL right to call your spouses stuff YOUR STUFF. Husbands & Wives are afforded specific rights that boyfriends & girlfriends are NOT. It also gives you the OPTION of a joint tax filing which can save you money.

    If gays were really interested in those 2 advantages that marriage brings you then I would make a suggestion that I have already explored & executed:

    As a couple create a S corporation & then put all purchases thorough that corporation. You can issue shares 50/50. It is A LOT easier to create & liquidate then a marriage!!!!

    Also nothing is stopping gays from having a WEDDING. They just don't get the license but a S corp would give them a certain amount of legal binding & protection.

  5. #23
    Administrator Gold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gay marriage? Not in Maine.

    Quote Originally Posted by FloggingSully View Post
    If John wants to marry Bill because of his gender. A woman is allowed to marry Bill but a man isn't. I strait person or a gay person could marry Bill, sexual preference is not what's preventing someone from marrying Bill, gender is.
    I think you might be confused as to what "gender" means. Gender refers to how a person self-identifies, meaning, whether or not they think of them self as a man or a woman (or whatever else they might think of themself as).

    Most gay people of the male sex still self-identify as males.


  6. #24
    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gay marriage? Not in Maine.

    The most disturbing thing about this thread, is the AD.

  7. #25
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    Default Re: Gay marriage? Not in Maine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gold View Post
    I think you might be confused as to what "gender" means. Gender refers to how a person self-identifies, meaning, whether or not they think of them self as a man or a woman (or whatever else they might think of themself as).

    Most gay people of the male sex still self-identify as males.

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  8. #26
    World Champ ODH's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gay marriage? Not in Maine.

    Quote Originally Posted by kr1963 View Post
    Zapp's legal argument is completely right. If homosexuals are so concerned about their right as a group, with that group being classified by sexual preference then they should band together & seek a constitutional amendment.

    By the same token that amendment would have to protect the sexual preference rights of heterosexuals as well.

    The rest of the debate is just moral, not legal.

    Gays seek marriage as a way of legitimizing their lifestyle. I find 2 things very funny & interesting:

    1) I beleive that by informal poll that only about 1 to 2 % of the US population calls itself gay. I find it interesting that such a smaller minority sucks up a disportionate amount of attention in the media.

    2) The main thing a marriage gives you is the LEGAL right to call your spouses stuff YOUR STUFF. Husbands & Wives are afforded specific rights that boyfriends & girlfriends are NOT. It also gives you the OPTION of a joint tax filing which can save you money.

    If gays were really interested in those 2 advantages that marriage brings you then I would make a suggestion that I have already explored & executed:

    As a couple create a S corporation & then put all purchases thorough that corporation. You can issue shares 50/50. It is A LOT easier to create & liquidate then a marriage!!!!

    Also nothing is stopping gays from having a WEDDING. They just don't get the license but a S corp would give them a certain amount of legal binding & protection.
    Homosexuals want equal rights and equal protection under the law. What is hard to understand about that. If you are black and told you need to go to the back of the bus, you will find that unfair, just like if you are gay and told that you cannot marry.

    It is not about tax savings or pushing a lifestyle, it is about not wanting to be discriminated against by the state.

    As far as Maine rejecting this I am disappointed. Speaking as an elitist liberal New Englander, I truly thought that this area of the country is more progressive than elsewhere. I also feel that Maine's no votes contain a higher percentage of people who just don't like homosexuals and voted against giving them rights, as opposed to elsewhere in the country where fundamentalist religion plays a stronger role in politics.

  9. #27

    Default Re: Gay marriage? Not in Maine.

    Maybe voters in Maine realize that GAYS ALREADY HAVE RIGHTS! ODH, I am not trying to pick on you or anyone else, so I am not trying to force my opinions on anyone. The voters have already spoken. I do have an honest question, though. What do gays have to gain by getting married other than tax breaks? If they get legally married, what would that prove to them or anyone else? They aren't being stopped from anything now. They just like to tell everyone they see about their sexual preference when nobody cares. I think that maybe people are voting against them because they are sick and tired of hearing about their sexual preferences. Sex is for the bedroom not parades.

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