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Thread: Gay marriage? Not in Maine.

  1. #154

    Default Re: Gay marriage? Not in Maine.

    Quote Originally Posted by ODH View Post
    Why should someone have to leave their home to get what they see as a basic human right?
    I understand Zapp's point that gays are not a protected class but personally, I don't get why anyone would oppose gay marriage. What is in it for them to not allow two people to marry?
    No one is stopping them from walking into a church that performs these marriages and get married. So their "basic human right" is NOT being denied.

    What is being denied is a legal status to that marriage. Since we choose to have our elected representatives define legal agreements or status such as marriage, adoption, corporations and LLC's etc. then we also give then the authority (unless we bypass that authority and make it a direct referendum) to decide just WHO is and WHO is not legally entitled.

    Our Constitution is VERY specific as to what "rights" IT grants and what "rights" are to be determined by the people. Just because the people disagree with a certain proposal does not mean that it suddenly vests into a Constitutional Right.

    We DONT always get what we want in this country, but when we attempt to change the Constitution to meet our agenda rather than the other way around we defeat the whole purpose of that document itself.

    This is NOT to say that in hind site all of our laws have been just. But I, unlike some of you it seems, have far more confidence in the longterm fairness and judgement of my fellow citizen than I do some politically appointed jurist(s).

    Personally I am not all that opposed to gay marriage laws and fully support gay union laws that give those unions the same legal protections as marriage laws. To be honest, if it came up for a vote here, Im not sure I'd feel strong enough to vote one way or the other.

    What I am STRONGLY OPPOSED to is having some judge or cabal of judges deny me my right to self government by overturning my popular vote or the decision of my elected representatives based on their own self opinions of how THEY think the law should read.

  2. #155

    Default Re: Gay marriage? Not in Maine.

    Quote Originally Posted by coachsparky View Post
    It is not ignoring their will, it is protecting the rights of the minority the way our forefathers intended. As long as no one in the majorities rights are harmed by protecting the minorities rights that is the way it should be. An not one single person in the majority is harmed by protecting the rights of the minority by allowing them to marry the person they love. Can anyone tell me how in any way shape or form a majority person has a right of theirs impacted. I am willing to bet you cannot. But I can list a littany of ways in which the minority is harmed by not protecting their rights. I always find it ironic that a person who claims (falsely I might add) that they are for shrinking government want to increase governments interference in the private lives (there bedrooms and the uteruses) of citizens. How hypocritical can a person be?
    When decisions by the majority are superseded by the minority through judicial activism then my rights as a citizen to self government are denied. I wont belabor my point above but like it or not marriage laws are EXACTLY the kind of issues that our forefathers wanted decided by the people AS THEY SPELLED OUT IN THE 10th AMENDMENT and that is why 1. There is NO Constitutional Right to gay marriage 2. If you WANT it to be a Constitutional right then do it the legal way... get an amendment passed!

    How I may or may not be impacted or hurt by a law granting recognition of gay marriage is purely conjecture which is yet ANOTHER reason this should be decided by the people.

    As to that thought challenged comment about limited government and private lives, let me remind you once again that NO ONE is stopping a couple from being married in a church or civil ceremony of their choice. What is being denied is a legal recognition of that arrangement. And because it is a legal status it always has been and always should be, decided by the people.

  3. #156

    Default Re: Gay marriage? Not in Maine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tight-Waist View Post
    What I am STRONGLY OPPOSED to is having some judge or cabal of judges deny me my right to self government by overturning my popular vote or the decision of my elected representatives based on their own self opinions of how THEY think the law should read.
    If the people, or their elected respresentatives, passed a law saying no one was allowed to own a gun would you be strongly opposed to a judge or cabal of judges overturning the popular vote based on their own opinions of how THEY think the law should read?
    There's no such thing as a pretty good aligator wrestler.

  4. #157

    Default Re: Gay marriage? Not in Maine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tight-Waist View Post
    And because it is a legal status it always has been and always should be, decided by the people.
    The rights of interracial couples to marry was decided by the courts, not the people.
    There's no such thing as a pretty good aligator wrestler.

  5. #158

    Default Re: Gay marriage? Not in Maine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chance174 View Post
    I never said anything about the impacted electorate, in fact i never said anything about the electorate....go back and read the post again.
    You said the majority made the change, the only way the majority can make a change is through and "election" ie, it requires and "electorate."
    This is not rock science chance, it is really simple, please try to keep up.

  6. #159

    Default Re: Gay marriage? Not in Maine.

    Quote Originally Posted by FloggingSully View Post
    If the people, or their elected respresentatives, passed a law saying no one was allowed to own a gun would you be strongly opposed to a judge or cabal of judges overturning the popular vote based on their own opinions of how THEY think the law should read?
    Are you TRYING to throw me softballs here Sully? Seriously.

    Only insofar as there is a Second Amendment SPECIFICALLY ADDRESSING THIS ISSUE!

    Perhaps, if you want to make this comparison, you can show me ANYWHERE in the Constitution the words gay marriage or even the word marrige exists.... anywhere at all.... take your time.

  7. #160

    Default Re: Gay marriage? Not in Maine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tight-Waist View Post
    Are you TRYING to throw me softballs here Sully? Seriously.

    Only insofar as there is a Second Amendment SPECIFICALLY ADDRESSING THIS ISSUE!

    Perhaps, if you want to make this comparison, you can show me ANYWHERE in the Constitution the words gay marriage or even the word marrige exists.... anywhere at all.... take your time.
    So you're OK with judges overruling the will of the people if, in the judge's opinion, the will of the people violates the constitution?
    There's no such thing as a pretty good aligator wrestler.

  8. #161

    Default Re: Gay marriage? Not in Maine.

    Quote Originally Posted by FloggingSully View Post
    The rights of interracial couples to marry was decided by the courts, not the people.
    THIS Sully........ is a far far more compelling argument than that 2nd Amendment issue.

    To answer this I turn once again to the Constitution, this time the 15th Amendment which reads... "The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.

    CLEARLY... there is no mention of sexual preference here.

    And now let me return to the 10th Amendment... "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

    So you can see here the Constitution itself by not including any mention of sexual preference or marriage demands that this issue be decided just as it is now by the states or the voters therein.

  9. #162

    Default Re: Gay marriage? Not in Maine.

    Quote Originally Posted by FloggingSully View Post
    So you're OK with judges overruling the will of the people if, in the judge's opinion, the will of the people violates the constitution?
    I am NOT making up words here to fit an agenda as you and others want to do. There is quite clearly something called the SECOND AMENDMENT."A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." Your refusal to accept the fact that the Constitution already addresses the issue of guns but does NOT address sexual preference or marriage only reflects your contempt for what is in there that you dont like and your impatience for what is not in there that you want.

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