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Thread: Church of Scientology convicted of fraud in France

  1. #46

    Default Re: Church of Scientology convicted of fraud in France

    "The way to make a million dollars is to start a religion." -L Ron Hubbard.

    About the quote:

    To summarize: we have nine witnesses: Neison Himmel, Sam Merwin, Sam Moskowitz, Theodore Sturgeon, Lloyd Arthur Eshbach, Harlan Ellison, and the three unnamed witnesses of Robert Vaughn Young. There is some confusion and doubt about one of them (Sam Moskowitz). Two are reported via Russel Miller: one is reported via Mike Jittlov: one reported in his autobiography; one reported in an affidavit; and one reported to me in person. The reports describe different events, meaning that Hubbard said it perhaps six times, in six different venues - definitely not just once. And the Church's official disclaimer is now reportedly a flat lie.

    Conclusion: He definitely said it more than once.

    http://www.don-lindsay-archive.org/s....religion.html

    I'll leave it to everyone to make their own decision on the matter. Certainly interesting that multiple people heard him say it multiple times, though.

  2. #47
    Olympic Champ kr1963's Avatar
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    Default Re: Church of Scientology convicted of fraud in France

    Quote Originally Posted by rustyshackleford View Post
    "The way to make a million dollars is to start a religion." -L Ron Hubbard.
    This is just an old attempt at slander. You are like one of those people who listen to lies long enough that they believe. And I can tell from what you write & post that you want to expect the worst of people & can't stand it when people are being helped.

  3. #48
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    Default Re: Church of Scientology convicted of fraud in France

    Here is a copy of the magazine Scn published in response to Time's article:
    http://picclick.com/Everything-Else/...403919728.html

    In addition the Church placed color full-page ads in USA Today in May and June 1991, on every weekday for 12 weeks, protesting the Time magazine cover.<sup> </sup>The Two official Church of Scientology responses were titled "Facts vs. Fiction: A Correction of Falsehoods Contained in the May 6th 1991 Issue of Time Magazine", and "The Story That Time Couldn't Tell" as I posted a link to above. Prior to the advertising campaign, Scientologists distributed the 88-page bound "The Story That Time Couldn't Tell" booklet which disputed points from Time's article.

    The "Fact vs. Fiction" piece was a quarter-inch thick booklet, which criticized Time's article and asserted it's article omits the information on the dozens of community service programs conducted by Scientologists which have been acknowledged by community officials".

    One of the advertisements in USA Today showed how Time promoted Adolf Hitler and Nazi Germany, and featured a 1936 issue of Time which had Hitler's picture on the front cover. The Church of Scientology sent out a news release condemning Time's "horrible history of supporting fascism," and said that the article was written because Time had been pressured by "vested interests".

    It also showed the link between Eli Lily & Nazi chemical firm I. G. Farben. Farben created the nerve gas, Zyklon, that was used in Hitler's "Final Solution". The formula was used to create highly addictive & deadly painkiller drugs like darvocet.

    (More can read about how Big Pharma operates by rading what former Pfizer VP Peter Rost has to say:
    http://litigationconsultant.blogspot.com/
    or
    http://www.gwenolsen.com/
    Gwen is former Pharma sales rep who states that Big Pharma has a policy to try & discredit the Church of Scientology in any way they can.)


    Heber Jentzsch, President of Church of Scientology, released a 4 page news release which stated "Advertising is the only way the church could be assured of getting its message and its side of the story out to the public without the same vested interests behind the Time article distorting it".

    <sup> </sup>After the advertising run critiquing Time magazine in USA Today had completed, the Church mounted a public relations campaign about Scientology in USA Today, in June 1991. Scientology placed a 48-page advertising supplement in 1.8 million copies of USA Today. In a statement to the St. Petersburg Times, Scientology spokesman Richard Haworth explained "What we are trying to do is put the actual facts of Dianetics and Scientology out there".<sup> </sup>

    In February 1992, Church leader David Miscavige gave Ted Koppel his 1st interview on Scientology on the ABC News program Nightline. Miscavige explained that the first 3 weeks of the advertising campaign was meant to correct falsehoods from the Time article, and the rest of the 12 week campaign was dedicated to informing the public about Scientology. Koppel asked Miscavige what specifically had upset him about the Time article, and Miscavige called Behar "a hater".

    Miscavige noted that Behar had written an article on Scientology and the IRS 3 years before he began work on the Time piece, and made allegations that Behar had attempted to get two Scientologists kidnapped. When Koppel questioned Miscavige further on this, Miscavige said that individuals had contacted Behar after an earlier article, and Behar had told them to "kidnap Scientologists out". Koppel pressed further, noting that this was a serious charge to make, and asked Miscavige if his allegations were accurate, why he had not pressed charges for attempted kidnapping. Miscavige said Koppel was "missing the issue," and said that his real point was that he thought the article was not an objective piece.

    Miscavige alleged on Nightline that the article itself was published from a request by Eli Lilly, due to "the damage we had caused to their killer drug Prozac". Miscavige stated that "Eli Lilly ordered a reprint of 750,000 copies of Time magazine before it came out."

    Time nor Eli Lily never sued the church over anything published in USA Today, "Facts vs. Fiction: A Correction of Falsehoods Contained in the May 6th 1991 Issue of Time Magazine" "The Story that Time couldn't tell" nor what was said on ABC's Nightline, as they knew that what was in the article was true. They didn't even raise a finger.

    So as you stated before you believe the Time article as all of the libel suits were thrown out but on the other hand when the church presented "their case" to the public, those opponents of Scientology didn't even bring Scientology to court.

    Isn't that interesting. I wonder why.
    Last edited by kr1963; 11-24-2009 at 08:06 AM.

  4. #49

    Default Re: Church of Scientology convicted of fraud in France

    Quote Originally Posted by kr1963 View Post
    This is just an old attempt at slander. You are like one of those people who listen to lies long enough that they believe. And I can tell from what you write & post that you want to expect the worst of people & can't stand it when people are being helped.
    This is the funniest post I've ever read here. Honestly. You believe is that an intergalactic warlord named Xenu killed millions of alien creatures in volcanoes and their souls now infect us, but I listen to lies and believe them too much. Thanks for the bump to the top. This is too entertaining.

  5. #50

    Default Re: Church of Scientology convicted of fraud in France

    Quote Originally Posted by kr1963 View Post
    Here is a copy of the magazine Scn published in response to Time's article:
    http://picclick.com/Everything-Else/...403919728.html

    In addition the Church placed color full-page ads in USA Today in May and June 1991, on every weekday for 12 weeks, protesting the Time magazine cover.<sup> </sup>The Two official Church of Scientology responses were titled "Facts vs. Fiction: A Correction of Falsehoods Contained in the May 6th 1991 Issue of Time Magazine", and "The Story That Time Couldn't Tell" as I posted a link to above. Prior to the advertising campaign, Scientologists distributed the 88-page bound "The Story That Time Couldn't Tell" booklet which disputed points from Time's article.

    The "Fact vs. Fiction" piece was a quarter-inch thick booklet, which criticized Time's article and asserted it's article omits the information on the dozens of community service programs conducted by Scientologists which have been acknowledged by community officials".

    One of the advertisements in USA Today showed how Time promoted Adolf Hitler and Nazi Germany, and featured a 1936 issue of Time which had Hitler's picture on the front cover. The Church of Scientology sent out a news release condemning Time's "horrible history of supporting fascism," and said that the article was written because Time had been pressured by "vested interests".

    It also showed the link between Eli Lily & Nazi chemical firm I. G. Farben. Farben created the nerve gas, Zyklon, that was used in Hitler's "Final Solution". The formula was used to create highly addictive & deadly painkiller drugs like darvocet.

    (More can read about how Big Pharma operates by rading what former Pfizer VP Peter Rost has to say:
    http://litigationconsultant.blogspot.com/
    or
    http://www.gwenolsen.com/
    Gwen is former Pharma sales rep who states that Big Pharma has a policy to try & discredit the Church of Scientology in any way they can.)


    Heber Jentzsch, President of Church of Scientology, released a 4 page news release which stated "Advertising is the only way the church could be assured of getting its message and its side of the story out to the public without the same vested interests behind the Time article distorting it".

    <sup> </sup>After the advertising run critiquing Time magazine in USA Today had completed, the Church mounted a public relations campaign about Scientology in USA Today, in June 1991. Scientology placed a 48-page advertising supplement in 1.8 million copies of USA Today. In a statement to the St. Petersburg Times, Scientology spokesman Richard Haworth explained "What we are trying to do is put the actual facts of Dianetics and Scientology out there".<sup> </sup>

    In February 1992, Church leader David Miscavige gave Ted Koppel his 1st interview on Scientology on the ABC News program Nightline. Miscavige explained that the first 3 weeks of the advertising campaign was meant to correct falsehoods from the Time article, and the rest of the 12 week campaign was dedicated to informing the public about Scientology. Koppel asked Miscavige what specifically had upset him about the Time article, and Miscavige called Behar "a hater".

    Miscavige noted that Behar had written an article on Scientology and the IRS 3 years before he began work on the Time piece, and made allegations that Behar had attempted to get two Scientologists kidnapped. When Koppel questioned Miscavige further on this, Miscavige said that individuals had contacted Behar after an earlier article, and Behar had told them to "kidnap Scientologists out". Koppel pressed further, noting that this was a serious charge to make, and asked Miscavige if his allegations were accurate, why he had not pressed charges for attempted kidnapping. Miscavige said Koppel was "missing the issue," and said that his real point was that he thought the article was not an objective piece.

    Miscavige alleged on Nightline that the article itself was published from a request by Eli Lilly, due to "the damage we had caused to their killer drug Prozac". Miscavige stated that "Eli Lilly ordered a reprint of 750,000 copies of Time magazine before it came out."

    Time nor Eli Lily never sued the church over anything published in USA Today, "Facts vs. Fiction: A Correction of Falsehoods Contained in the May 6th 1991 Issue of Time Magazine" "The Story that Time couldn't tell" nor what was said on ABC's Nightline, as they knew that what was in the article was true. They didn't even raise a finger.

    So as you stated before you believe the Time article as all of the libel suits were thrown out but on the other hand when the church presented "their case" to the public, those opponents of Scientology didn't even bring Scientology to court.

    Isn't that interesting. I wonder why.
    None of that changes the fact that your sci fi cult robbed the people in that article. It just changes the subject. Again, I'm not dumb enough to take the bait. Now I see where you get you MO. How much do you have to pay to get the lessons in subterfuge? Whatever it is, you should demand a refund because you're not very good at it.
    Last edited by rustyshackleford; 11-24-2009 at 02:34 PM.

  6. #51

    Default Re: Church of Scientology convicted of fraud in France

    Quote Originally Posted by kr1963 View Post
    This is just an old attempt at slander. You are like one of those people who listen to lies long enough that they believe. And I can tell from what you write & post that you want to expect the worst of people & can't stand it when people are being helped.
    Tom, since you say I listen to lies to long and believe them, can you tell me if you believe this? BTW, I like the fact that you don't deny having to pay to get the right to hear here this...

    Hubbard wrote that Xenu was the ruler of a Galactic Confederacy seventy-five million years ago, which consisted of 26 stars and 76 planets including Earth, which was then known as "Teegeeack".[5][10][17] The planets were overpopulated, with an average population of 178 billion.[1][4][6] The Galactic Confederacy's civilization was comparable to our own, with aliens "walking around in clothes which looked very remarkably like the clothes they wear this very minute" and using cars, trains and boats looking exactly the same as those "circa 1950, 1960" on Earth.[18]
    Xenu was about to be deposed from power, so he devised a plot to eliminate the excess population from his dominions. With the assistance of psychiatrists, he summoned billions[4][5] of his citizens together under the pretense of income tax inspections, then paralyzed them and froze them in a mixture of alcohol and glycol to capture their souls. The kidnapped populace was loaded into spacecraft for transport to the site of extermination, the planet of Teegeeack (Earth).[5] The appearance of these spacecraft would later be subconsciously expressed in the design of the Douglas DC-8, the only difference being: "the DC8 had fans, propellers on it and the space plane didn't."[15] When they had reached Teegeeack/Earth, the paralyzed citizens were unloaded around the bases of volcanoes across the planet.[5][10] Hydrogen bombs were then lowered into the volcanoes and detonated simultaneously.[10] Only a few aliens' physical bodies survived. Hubbard described the scene in his film script, Revolt in the Stars:
    Simultaneously, the planted charges erupted. Atomic blasts ballooned from the craters of Loa, Vesuvius, Shasta, Washington, Fujiyama, Etna, and many, many others. Arching higher and higher, up and outwards, towering clouds mushroomed, shot through with flashes of flame, waste and fission. Great winds raced tumultuously across the face of Earth, spreading tales of destruction...
    ? L. Ron Hubbard, Revolt in the Stars[9]
    The now-disembodied victims' souls, which Hubbard called thetans, were blown into the air by the blast. They were captured by Xenu's forces using an "electronic ribbon" ("which also was a type of standing wave") and sucked into "vacuum zones" around the world. The hundreds of billions[5][19] of captured thetans were taken to a type of cinema, where they were forced to watch a "three-D, super colossal motion picture" for thirty-six days. This implanted what Hubbard termed "various misleading data"' (collectively termed the R6 implant) into the memories of the hapless thetans, "which has to do with God, the Devil, space opera, et cetera". This included all world religions, with Hubbard specifically attributing Roman Catholicism and the image of the Crucifixion to the influence of Xenu. The two "implant stations" cited by Hubbard were said to have been located on Hawaii and Las Palmas in the Canary Islands.[20]
    In addition to implanting new beliefs in the thetans, the images deprived them of their sense of personal identity. When the thetans left the projection areas, they started to cluster together in groups of a few thousand, having lost the ability to differentiate between each other. Each cluster of thetans gathered into one of the few remaining bodies that survived the explosion. These became what are known as body thetans, which are said to be still clinging to and adversely affecting everyone except those Scientologists who have performed the necessary steps to remove them.[10]
    A government faction known as the Loyal Officers finally overthrew Xenu and his renegades, and locked him away in "an electronic mountain trap" from which he still has not escaped.[7][21][17] Although the location of Xenu is sometimes said to be the Pyrenees on Earth, this is actually the location Hubbard gave elsewhere for an ancient "Martian report station".[22][23] Teegeeack/Earth was subsequently abandoned by the Galactic Confederacy and remains a pariah "prison planet" to this day, although it has suffered repeatedly from incursions by alien "Invader Forces" since that time.[5][24][25]
    In 1988, the cost of learning these secrets from the Church of Scientology was ?3,830, or US$6,500.[26][12] This is additional to the cost of the prior courses which are necessary to be eligible for OT III, which is often well over US$100,000 (roughly ?60,000).[7] Belief in Xenu and body thetans is a requirement for a Scientologist to progress further along the Bridge to Total Freedom.[27] Those who do not experience the benefits of the OT III course are expected to take it (and pay for it) again.[21]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenu

  7. #52

    Default Re: Church of Scientology convicted of fraud in France

    Quote Originally Posted by rustyshackleford View Post
    Tom, since you say I listen to lies to long and believe them, can you tell me if you believe this? BTW, I like the fact that you don't deny having to pay to get the right to hear here this...

    Hubbard wrote that Xenu was the ruler of a Galactic Confederacy seventy-five million years ago, which consisted of 26 stars and 76 planets including Earth, which was then known as "Teegeeack".[5][10][17] The planets were overpopulated, with an average population of 178 billion.[1][4][6] The Galactic Confederacy's civilization was comparable to our own, with aliens "walking around in clothes which looked very remarkably like the clothes they wear this very minute" and using cars, trains and boats looking exactly the same as those "circa 1950, 1960" on Earth.[18]
    Xenu was about to be deposed from power, so he devised a plot to eliminate the excess population from his dominions. With the assistance of psychiatrists, he summoned billions[4][5] of his citizens together under the pretense of income tax inspections, then paralyzed them and froze them in a mixture of alcohol and glycol to capture their souls. The kidnapped populace was loaded into spacecraft for transport to the site of extermination, the planet of Teegeeack (Earth).[5] The appearance of these spacecraft would later be subconsciously expressed in the design of the Douglas DC-8, the only difference being: "the DC8 had fans, propellers on it and the space plane didn't."[15] When they had reached Teegeeack/Earth, the paralyzed citizens were unloaded around the bases of volcanoes across the planet.[5][10] Hydrogen bombs were then lowered into the volcanoes and detonated simultaneously.[10] Only a few aliens' physical bodies survived. Hubbard described the scene in his film script, Revolt in the Stars:
    Simultaneously, the planted charges erupted. Atomic blasts ballooned from the craters of Loa, Vesuvius, Shasta, Washington, Fujiyama, Etna, and many, many others. Arching higher and higher, up and outwards, towering clouds mushroomed, shot through with flashes of flame, waste and fission. Great winds raced tumultuously across the face of Earth, spreading tales of destruction...
    ? L. Ron Hubbard, Revolt in the Stars[9]
    The now-disembodied victims' souls, which Hubbard called thetans, were blown into the air by the blast. They were captured by Xenu's forces using an "electronic ribbon" ("which also was a type of standing wave") and sucked into "vacuum zones" around the world. The hundreds of billions[5][19] of captured thetans were taken to a type of cinema, where they were forced to watch a "three-D, super colossal motion picture" for thirty-six days. This implanted what Hubbard termed "various misleading data"' (collectively termed the R6 implant) into the memories of the hapless thetans, "which has to do with God, the Devil, space opera, et cetera". This included all world religions, with Hubbard specifically attributing Roman Catholicism and the image of the Crucifixion to the influence of Xenu. The two "implant stations" cited by Hubbard were said to have been located on Hawaii and Las Palmas in the Canary Islands.[20]
    In addition to implanting new beliefs in the thetans, the images deprived them of their sense of personal identity. When the thetans left the projection areas, they started to cluster together in groups of a few thousand, having lost the ability to differentiate between each other. Each cluster of thetans gathered into one of the few remaining bodies that survived the explosion. These became what are known as body thetans, which are said to be still clinging to and adversely affecting everyone except those Scientologists who have performed the necessary steps to remove them.[10]
    A government faction known as the Loyal Officers finally overthrew Xenu and his renegades, and locked him away in "an electronic mountain trap" from which he still has not escaped.[7][21][17] Although the location of Xenu is sometimes said to be the Pyrenees on Earth, this is actually the location Hubbard gave elsewhere for an ancient "Martian report station".[22][23] Teegeeack/Earth was subsequently abandoned by the Galactic Confederacy and remains a pariah "prison planet" to this day, although it has suffered repeatedly from incursions by alien "Invader Forces" since that time.[5][24][25]
    In 1988, the cost of learning these secrets from the Church of Scientology was ?3,830, or US$6,500.[26][12] This is additional to the cost of the prior courses which are necessary to be eligible for OT III, which is often well over US$100,000 (roughly ?60,000).[7] Belief in Xenu and body thetans is a requirement for a Scientologist to progress further along the Bridge to Total Freedom.[27] Those who do not experience the benefits of the OT III course are expected to take it (and pay for it) again.[21]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenu
    Huh???
    Like Billy Jacks' soul attack, I'm one Injun you wont forget.

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  8. #53
    Olympic Champ kr1963's Avatar
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    Default Re: Church of Scientology convicted of fraud in France

    Quote Originally Posted by rustyshackleford View Post
    This is the funniest post I've ever read here. Honestly. You believe is that an intergalactic warlord named Xenu killed millions of alien creatures in volcanoes and their souls now infect us, but I listen to lies and believe them too much. Thanks for the bump to the top. This is too entertaining.

    Like a lot of your posts you make assumptions & then proceed to build an argument based upon said suppositions. You have never addressed me directly about my beliefs, (In a court of law your case crumbles right there.)

    Meanwhile you keep providing old data from from old websites from old church opponents that has been defeated in courts of law & try to make it sound like it is something brand new & incontestable.

    In a search for humor, those 2 points are what's laughable.

    My suppositions would lead me to believe that you have never studied Scientology & that you have never met a church member & that you only believe what the opposing websites tell you to believe. That's the very definition of being brainwashed right there.

    The original thread title has to do with someone posting the data that the Church was sued in a French court. I merely pointed out that it has directly gone to appeals court.

    You pulled out a 18 year old Time magazine article plus a court case that was thrown out. as your justification for all of your actions & beliefs about Scientology.

    Then I show a summary of 132 pages of very public magazines outlining the actions of Richard Woods, Eli Lily CEO, Martin Sorrel, WPP CEO & executives from Time, J. Walter Thompson & Hill & Knowlton to knowingly create a Black PR smear campaign about the Church, NONE of which has ever been disproven.

    In fact none of these big powerful Fortune 500 companies, with Billions at their disposal have even lifted a finger to sue the Church. Why? Because they know their secrets & tactics were exposed & it was the truth.

    Meanwhile pharmaceutical companies continued to get sued while the church continues to expand. And it continues to expand because everyday it helps thousands of people lead better lives in all aspects.

  9. #54
    Olympic Champ kr1963's Avatar
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    Default Re: Church of Scientology convicted of fraud in France

    Quote Originally Posted by rustyshackleford View Post
    Tom, since you say I listen to lies to long and believe them, can you tell me if you believe this? BTW, I like the fact that you don't deny having to pay to get the right to hear here this...

    I find it funny that you seem to make a career on this website of holding other people's viewpoints up to scorn while never once mentioning what you believe.

    Based upon all of the posts I have read of yours over the past 4 months I would have to assume:

    1) You are an atheist so any discussions about spiritual beliefs is pretty much like discussing politics with a monkey, (though I am sure you will try to point out that it is I who is the monkey here). I am pretty sure that you don't even care what happens to you after the body dies;

    2) That with all your worries about people being scammed & ripped off financially really reveal all of your own transgressions on the subject of money. I am assuming that you are one of these "money is bad" socialist types so again talking to you about the cost of something is moot;

    3) That any & all anti-scientology websites are your "bible" & you take it to be the truthful gospel as according to all your other atheist socialist friends. I doubt whether you have ever actually read or researched the subject yourself nor any spiritual path for that matter.

    If I am wrong I am sure you will let me know.

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