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Thread: Is Scientology a legitimate religion?

  1. #37

    Default Re: Is Scientology a legitimate religion?

    Hope that answers your questions.

    Sure does. Thank you.

  2. #38
    Olympic Champ therick's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Scientology a legitimate religion?

    Scientology asks for DONATIONS for their counseling services as well. All of the donations for pastoral counseling are tax deductible. I get it that you disagree with that but that is YOUR standard not mine.

    I have no issue with donations. Are these donations you speak of actually more of a fee? Can you get the same counceling for free that those who make donations get? Many of those who take part in counseling/study in the Catholic church, do indeed give donations to the church. They are, however, not required.

    Your counter question about Catholic clergy training costs, didn't answer my question.
    I am asking (and you have yet to answer the question) if scientology requires its members to pay fees in order to gain access to information(written or oral), texts, rituals, etc. that are not available to those members who don't make donations/pay fees? It really is a simple question. I'm asking this quesiton simply for clarification. I'm not attacking scientology as a belief system. I'm just asking these simple yes or no questions because you are the only person I currently have access to who is a member of the church, so you have the unique ability to anwer them. If you don't know, or you'd prefer not to answer, then just say so.

    In good faith, I'll answer your question. Although, becoming a member of clergy and simply seeking information and knowlege about the church and it's teachings are separate issues as far as I am concerned. My priest is able to answer any question and provide any information about the church to anyone, even non-members. In other words there are no "secrets" in the Catholic faith.

    The answer is that the Catholic church has a number of requirements in order to be considered to be ordained a priest, or other station in the church. Some of those requirments are in the form of education. A bachelors degree is one, and formal seminary education is another. Financial aid is available just like at any other university, both federal, state and scholarship based aid. It is the belief of the Catholic church that education is one of the foundations for a good priest to be able to provide his parishoners with councel, to give good homilies, to educate his parishoners effectively in church teachings and dogma, etc.

  3. #39
    Olympic Champ kr1963's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Scientology a legitimate religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by therick View Post
    I have no issue with donations. Are these donations you speak of actually more of a fee? Can you get the same counseling for free that those who make donations get? Many of those who take part in counseling/study in the Catholic church, do indeed give donations to the church. They are, however, not required.

    I am asking if Scientology requires its members to pay fees in order to gain access to information(written or oral), texts, rituals, etc. that are not available to those members who don't make donations/pay fees?

    My priest is able to answer any question and provide any information about the church to anyone, even non-members. In other words there are no "secrets" in the Catholic faith.
    .
    I have no issue with donations. Are these donations you speak of actually more of a fee?

    Yes, you are paying for the time of a trained professional counselor. Some counselors work outside the church & charge even more. I do not charge at all.

    In some instances people who train as counselors pair up & deliver counseling to each other. Often, if they do that, they do it with each other for free if it is outside the church.

    As I have stated before there are so several introductory services a person can do free of charge, in the church, online or outside the church.

    Can you get the same counseling for free that those who make donations get?

    In some cases yes.

    I am asking if Scientology requires its members to pay fees in order to gain access to information(written or oral), texts, rituals, etc. that are not available to those members who don't make donations/pay fees?


    Requires? No, no one is told that they have to pay anything. Any donation is voluntary. However if you want a particular service that is only offered in the church, then like any service a member would make a donation. In that respect one could say that a donation is required but no one is telling people that they HAVE to give money.

    Opponents will argue that this is what makes Scientology a business & not a religion, however the pastoral counseling received is most definitely SPIRITUAL. There is no TANGIBLE product involved like a quart of milk or investment advice for example.

    The results of the counseling are INTANGIBLE meaning that a person will not be able to measure them with a scale or ruler. I will tell you that proabably 99% of the members feel that the benefit they received FAR OUTWEIGHED THE MONEY DONATED.

    For most people that is outside of their immediate frame of reference. And because it is not within their reality of their experiences they might try to say that it is a lie or a rip-off at worst. I find that most people who have that opinion have not explored themselves spiritually as of yet.

    For those who have a spiritual reality & find fault Scientology's system of donations I find most of them simply just don't know with what Scientology deals with. Most people on a spiritual path have arrived on that path because it works for them & hence usually do not seek to understand other belief systems as they found what they were looking for.

    If they do look @ other belief systems then it is usually against their own frame of reference solely that they make their analysis. Scientology deals with things that pretty much no other spiritual belief system actually tackles so in that way unless a person can make a jump outside of their own frame work then any explanations as to why Scientology as a group does what it does will not be understood.

    In the world of philosophy & religion the schools break down into 2 camps: 1) Salvation is available thru a savior or 2) Salvation is available thru your own hard work. Scientology definitely is in camp #2.

    My Reader's Digest version of Scientology is this: If a young boy has a goal to become an Olympic Gold Medalist you are not going to throw him on the mat with Olympic wrestlers right away. Learning is a gradient process. It doesn't have to take a long time but an athlete has certain steps & scale of accomplishments along the way if he wants to achieve his goal.

    Scientology deals with a very difficult part of the human experience for lack of a better term I shall call the "subconscious mind". It stores all the painful emotional & physical experiences a person can have. Scientology counseling gets rid of that pain & baggage with very exact technologies.

    Once a person handles that they realize that there is a "group subconscious" that effects not only ourselves as individuals but everyone on the planet. The technology in handling that is very exact as the effects of this group subconscious are even more dramatic then a person can realize.

    Back to my analogy, having someone trying to tackle that group subconscious before they are ready would be like throwing a 8 year old kid into a gym full of Olympic athletes, NO CONTEST. Besides that the kid could get seriously hurt & have his confidence destroyed.

    Scientology is a path set up for a person to handle his own salvation & win while doing it in a taped set of steps just like training a prize winning athlete. Some techniques are going to be confidential because they could hurt an untrained person until they were ready to handle the force which lies within. That is about as simple as i can make it in an attempt to get others to understand.

    Maybe also some of you can grasp why there might be others in society who don't want Scientology out there helping people & in fact try to portray that it is the opposite.

    My priest is able to answer any question and provide any information about the church to anyone, even non-members. In other words there are no "secrets" in the Catholic faith.

    I personally would not say that there are any "secrets" in Scientology. I think the last few paragraphs above might have gone along those lines in trying to explain why that is my opinion.

    In addition, to over simplify Christian's most common doctrine is that Jesus Christ died for all of your own personal transgressions & belief in this concept gives one spiritual salvation, (John 3:16).

    In that context an argument could be made that that is ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW as thru the spilling of the blood & belief in him you are saved. Yes I know the book of James, (2:17, ...faith without works is dead...) in which the brother of Jesus speaks about the changed life thru the Christ means nothing unless that changed life bears the fruit of a changed man.

    However my point here is that while in most Christian churches one's own salvation is one's faith in solely in believing Jesus, in Scientology one's own salvation is for one to work out between him/herself and God directly. It is something you must DO. There is not much of a secret in Faith while handling yourself as a spiritual entity requires a bit more of a learning curve & you will not be able to absorb all the data all at once.

    I respect what Christian's believe but I am simply stating that there are two schools of thought on how one chose to handle his/her own salvation, (or not Do it yourself or let someone do it for you.

    I know that this is the part of the miracle of the Christ, that letting God be in control renders one all sorts of gifts, however I have not found this to be a completely workable system for me as unless I take full responsibility for any situation in my life things won't go very well & assigning causation elsewhere, (well that is just an entirely other ball of wax).

    I am sorry if this appears to have gotten long winded but at least I hope I answered your questions especially within the context of your Catholic Beliefs.

  4. #40
    Olympic Champ kr1963's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Scientology a legitimate religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by arm-spin View Post
    Hope that answers your questions.

    Sure does. Thank you.
    no problem, you're welcome!

  5. #41
    Olympic Champ therick's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Scientology a legitimate religion?

    That answered my question. Thanks.

  6. #42
    Olympic Champ kr1963's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Scientology a legitimate religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by therick View Post
    That answered my question. Thanks.

    You are welcome rick.

  7. #43

    Default Re: Is Scientology a legitimate religion?

    Ah, what the heck. I found this interesting

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100108/...ard_recordings

    <cite class="vcard">By MATT SEDENSKY, Associated Press Writer Matt Sedensky, Associated Press Writer </cite>– <abbr class="timedate" title="2010-01-08T02:34:54-0800">Fri Jan 8, 5:34 am ET</abbr>
    <!-- end .byline --> CLEARWATER, Fla. – More than 1,000 unreleased recordings of lectures by L. Ron Hubbard and reams of corresponding writings have been unveiled in the culmination of a 25-year project to locate, restore and transcribe lost pieces of the Scientology founder's work.

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