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Thread: Are we Puritans? What the F is wrong with this country...

  1. #10

    Default Re: Are we Puritans? What the F is wrong with this country...

    Quote Originally Posted by matclone View Post
    Thanks to ABC/Disney/ESPN, we're supposed to be outraged and we can draw certain conclusions from facts that are less than certain. I'm sure talk radio is all over this as well.

    QS, if I slap you on the ass, and rub your nipples, it's cool right? Any offense you might take is an overraction? Or maybe it's okay so long as the slapees are girls?

    The problem, such as it is, seems to be in the possible overreaction of the DA, not the law itself. One, I remind you the facts, including the context of the alleged offense, are less than certain. Two, the punishment (if any) has not been determined.

    Yes, American culture has a Puritan element.
    Less than certain? Clone the boys were handcuffed, arrested, and spent 5 days in a detention facility. Don't you think that's a bit harsh?

    What about a coach who slaps his athletes on the ass? He's sex offender now too?

    I see this as a very slippery slope.

  2. #11
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    Default Re: Are we Puritans? What the F is wrong with this country...

    Less than certain? Clone the boys were handcuffed, arrested, and spent 5 days in a detention facility. Don't you think that's a bit harsh?

    Yes, that sounds harsh--inappropriate if you will.

    What about a coach who slaps his athletes on the ass? He's sex offender now too?

    It all depends on the context of the slap, including who's involved. Like I said, that's kind of murky here. Many real life incidences are.

    I see this as a very slippery slope.

    Slippery slopes run in the opposite direction on the other side of the mountain. If it's hunky dory for boys to slap girls on their bottom, what's next? Pinching that good looking teacher's upper thigh as she walks by?

  3. #12
    Ancient Arachnid Spider's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are we Puritans? What the F is wrong with this country...

    The slippery slope argument never impressed me much - it's just an excuse to avoid doing the right thing in a given situation - and that's what must be done here: the right thing in a given situation. If these were good kids engaging in playful activity that crossed the line (maybe), treat it as such (and this appears to be the case, at least from the tenor of the article). If they are troubled kids who are sexually promiscuous or a threat to others, get them the help that they need. Professional educators should be able to make this distinction. If we overreact to this type of thing, we will create sexually repressed adults (like Big?), who will be unable to interact with the opposite sex in a healthy manner and will likely find an inappropriate outlet for their natural urges. Regardless of the true nature of this particular situation, the handcuffs and five days of detention were over the top.
    Atrophy: what you get when you win atournament.

  4. #13
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    Default Re: Are we Puritans? What the F is wrong with this country...

    we will create sexually repressed adults (like Big?), who will be unable to interact with the opposite sex in a healthy manner and will likely find an inappropriate outlet for their natural urges.

    No Spider, more like Catholic Priests!

  5. #14
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    Default Re: Are we Puritans? What the F is wrong with this country...

    Quote Originally Posted by Big View Post
    we will create sexually repressed adults (like Big?), who will be unable to interact with the opposite sex in a healthy manner and will likely find an inappropriate outlet for their natural urges.

    No Spider, more like Catholic Priests!
    Agreed (I was kidding about you, of course), but that's a whole other issue.
    Atrophy: what you get when you win atournament.

  6. #15

    Default Re: Are we Puritans? What the F is wrong with this country...

    Quote Originally Posted by matclone View Post
    Thanks to ABC/Disney/ESPN, we're supposed to be outraged and we can draw certain conclusions from facts that are less than certain. I'm sure talk radio is all over this as well.

    QS, if I slap you on the ass, and rub your nipples, it's cool right? Any offense you might take is an overraction? Or maybe it's okay so long as the slapees are girls?

    The problem, such as it is, seems to be in the possible overreaction of the DA, not the law itself. One, I remind you the facts, including the context of the alleged offense, are less than certain. Two, the punishment (if any) has not been determined.

    Yes, American culture has a Puritan element.
    Clone, I totally agree with you on the highlighted portions of your quote above. I'm not willing to pass judgment on the case until I know the facts. I can't say for certain how the event occurred and I think it would be less than prudent to condemn an individual before the facts are known and the defendant has had a chance to explain himself.

    As for the puritan element, there is most certainly a puritan element in American culture and law. Laws are no more than reflections of the society that enacts them. Many of this countries early citizens were puritans or descendents of puritans, so it stands to reason that the puritan style may be portrayed in some of our laws.

    I heard on a talk radio program some weeks back that some state (I can't recall which) was requiring anyone accused (not necessarily convicted, but just accused) of a sex crime or even of harrassment to register as a sex offender. If this is true, it would be a classic case of an overreaction. I can't say that I have researched it myself, so I don't know that it is true.

    While I most certainly think sex crimes are particularly heinous, I don't think that a slap (contact with an open hand in a hitting manner that lasts a fraction of a second) is a sexual crime. I would think it is assault or battery, but I don't know the facts. Until then, I guess the police and the lawyers will have to figure it out.

  7. #16

    Default Re: Are we Puritans? What the F is wrong with this country...

    Insofar as California is concerned, most sex crimes are specific intent crimes which require a specific state of mind to be complete. Actually I can't think of a sex crime in California that isn't a specific intent crime, but its 3 am.

    I'm a litte surprised with this but admittedly don't know all the facts nor the Oregon statute. From only skimming the article and I got the sense this was juvenile horseplay and not sexual in nature, but I was a little disturbed to read one 13 year-old, Cory I believe, was reported to have been touching the breast of a female.

  8. #17

    Default Re: Are we Puritans? What the F is wrong with this country...

    As I said its 3 am...I believe rape is general intent but most other sex crimes requires specific intent (some form of sexual gratification).

  9. #18
    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are we Puritans? What the F is wrong with this country...

    From what you all are saying it sounds like horseplay. Did the Article express how the girls felt about this situation?

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