Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 9 of 12

Thread: Here is an alternative to Obama's plan

  1. #1
    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Littleton, CO
    Posts
    4,934

    Default Here is an alternative to Obama's plan

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...072865070.html

    Here are John Mackey's ideas for health Care reform, it is vastly different from Obamas. The link is to his article in the WSJ, read it its good. Other than that what are your thoughts on his proposal?


    ? Equalize the tax laws so that employer-provided health insurance and individually owned health insurance have the same tax benefits. Now employer health insurance benefits are fully tax deductible, but individual health insurance is not. This is unfair.

    I think he is right it is unfair. Its money going to the same cause should be a straight forward tax deduction for all. This would allow people to afford health care insurance.

    ? Repeal all state laws which prevent insurance companies from competing across state lines. We should all have the legal right to purchase health insurance from any insurance company in any state and we should be able use that insurance wherever we live. Health insurance should be portable.

    Again this makes sense. It might allow small businesses or individuals to get a plan that best suits them, not a plan that the state allows to suit them. Also with this you could potentially have small businesses pooling together to get better rates for them and their employees.

    ? Repeal government mandates regarding what insurance companies must cover. These mandates have increased the cost of health insurance by billions of dollars. What is insured and what is not insured should be determined by individual customer preferences and not through special-interest lobbying.

    I dont know that I agree here. I think that insurance companies have got to be told on some occasions, so they cant just drop people or exclude critical treatments.

    ? Enact tort reform to end the ruinous lawsuits that force doctors to pay insurance costs of hundreds of thousands of dollars per year. These costs are passed back to us through much higher prices for health care.

    If nothing else we should be outraged that there is no mention of tort reform in the current bills being floated by the dems. Clearly this is a huge cost to Dr's and hospitals that is passed on to us.

    ? Make costs transparent so that consumers understand what health-care treatments cost. How many people know the total cost of their last doctor's visit and how that total breaks down? What other goods or services do we buy without knowing how much they will cost us?

    Common sense never hurt anyone, I like this.

    ? Enact Medicare reform. We need to face up to the actuarial fact that Medicare is heading towards bankruptcy and enact reforms that create greater patient empowerment, choice and responsibility.

    I have been saying this for that past few days, whatever passes this has got to be addressed.

    ? Finally, revise tax forms to make it easier for individuals to make a voluntary, tax-deductible donation to help the millions of people who have no insurance and aren't covered by Medicare, Medicaid or the State Children's Health Insurance Program.

    This is my favorite. If you want to pay for those who dont have health insurance feel free to do so. I suspect the people who want this expensive Obama reform would neglect to give anything to help those who need insurance. I highly doubt Nancy Pelosi or John Murtha would give to the cause. This makes sense because it would show who really wants to help and who really just wants the government to pay for it. Just like you can volunteer more of your income to taxes, those people who want to tax the rich (even the rich dems) dont voluntarily give more. In other words put your money where your mouth is or shut it.

    Overall I think this is a good plan and could make serious headway to solve our health care issues. Obviously one plan cant solve everything put its a start.

    Oh and Democrats who cry about nobody having another idea and hate those who are just attacking Obamas have basically tried to crucify this guy calling for boycotts of whole foods. Nothing like an honest debate.

  2. #2
    Olympic Champ
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Parker, Az
    Posts
    3,388

    Default Re: Here is an alternative to Obama's plan

    As lon as this plan means that health care costs come down enough to lower health care for people like me, to where the tax incentive makes a difference, then it looks like a do-able plan.
    I am 49, bald, ugly, and don't own a single cool thing. Kids like me though.

  3. #3
    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Littleton, CO
    Posts
    4,934

    Default Re: Here is an alternative to Obama's plan

    Quote Originally Posted by sgallan View Post
    As lon as this plan means that health care costs come down enough to lower health care for people like me, to where the tax incentive makes a difference, then it looks like a do-able plan.
    I think it would. If anything you could buy an insurance plan with pre tax dollars and deduct it on your taxes I believe. Allowing companies to pool their employees to get better deals on insurance could also help. If a company only has 20 employees it does not get a great rate, if that company could join 10 or 15 other companies around the same size it could get a lot better rate.

    Clearly this is not the end all be all but it is a good start in reforming a system that needs it.

  4. #4
    Olympic Champ RYou's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    8,376

    Default Re: Here is an alternative to Obama's plan

    I think it would. If anything you could buy an insurance plan with pre tax dollars and deduct it on your taxes I believe.

    Out of pocket medical insurance premiums are already tax deductible since they transfer the risk of an out of pocket deductible expense.
    Life's not the breaths you take, the breathing in and out that gets you through the day ain't what it's all about. It's the moments that take your breath away.

  5. #5
    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Littleton, CO
    Posts
    4,934

    Default Re: Here is an alternative to Obama's plan

    Quote Originally Posted by RYou View Post
    I think it would. If anything you could buy an insurance plan with pre tax dollars and deduct it on your taxes I believe.

    Out of pocket medical insurance premiums are already tax deductible since they transfer the risk of an out of pocket deductible expense.
    See Mackey's first point.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Here is an alternative to Obama's plan

    He has some very good points.

    He mentioned crossing state lines, what do you think of allowing foreign insurance companies to enter the US market?

  7. #7

    Default Re: Here is an alternative to Obama's plan

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    ? Equalize the tax laws so that employer-provided health insurance and individually owned health insurance have the same tax benefits. Now employer health insurance benefits are fully tax deductible, but individual health insurance is not. This is unfair.
    The problem I see with this is that it decreases the incentive for employers to offer medical benefits which means more people will be on their own for insurance and those with pre-existing conditions (who previously could only get coverage through their employer) wouldn't be able to find insurance. This would be work-aroundable if something was added to prevent insurance companies from denying people who are sick or dropping people who get sick.


    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    ? Repeal all state laws which prevent insurance companies from competing across state lines. We should all have the legal right to purchase health insurance from any insurance company in any state and we should be able use that insurance wherever we live. Health insurance should be portable.
    So, the federal government should regulate all insurance, not the states? I though most 'states rights' people wanted the states to be in charge of more, not less.

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    ? Repeal government mandates regarding what insurance companies must cover. These mandates have increased the cost of health insurance by billions of dollars. What is insured and what is not insured should be determined by individual customer preferences and not through special-interest lobbying.
    I agree that this could open up a big can of worms.

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    ? Enact tort reform to end the ruinous lawsuits that force doctors to pay insurance costs of hundreds of thousands of dollars per year. These costs are passed back to us through much higher prices for health care.
    This would probably decrease costs, but could also decrease quality of care.

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    ? Make costs transparent so that consumers understand what health-care treatments cost. How many people know the total cost of their last doctor's visit and how that total breaks down? What other goods or services do we buy without knowing how much they will cost us?
    Yup, the market works better when consumers are informed, which is why the current healthcare market works so poorly.

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    ? Enact Medicare reform. We need to face up to the actuarial fact that Medicare is heading towards bankruptcy and enact reforms that create greater patient empowerment, choice and responsibility.
    It's easy to say something needs to be reformed, it a lot harder to come up with actual, workable, reforms.

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    ? Finally, revise tax forms to make it easier for individuals to make a voluntary, tax-deductible donation to help the millions of people who have no insurance and aren't covered by Medicare, Medicaid or the State Children's Health Insurance Program.
    How hard is it currently to make this type of donation?


    One really easy change that I haven't seen anyone propose which I think would make the healthcare market much more efficient is to require insurance companies to offer a certain amount of money they'll pay per service (instead of just a list of doctors/specialists who are willing to provide said service for that amount), that way people have a chance to choose to pay more for a service and it gives doctors more insentive to provide better care instead of just providing care for more people.
    There's no such thing as a pretty good aligator wrestler.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Here is an alternative to Obama's plan

    An amusing aside to the 'death panels' brouhaha as found on wikipedia...

    The "death panel" argument was endorsed by the Investor's Business Daily, which analogized the bill to the National Health Service (NHS) in the United Kingdom and editorialized: "People such as scientist Stephen Hawking wouldn't have a chance in the U.K., where the National Health Service would say the life of this brilliant man, because of his physical handicaps, is essentially worthless."<SUP id=cite_ref-13 class=reference>[14]</SUP> Hawking is in fact British, born in the United Kingdom, is a United Kingdom citizen, and lived his entire life in the United Kingdom.<SUP id=cite_ref-14 class=reference>[15]</SUP> Stephen Hawking responded, "I wouldn’t be here today if it were not for the NHS. I have received a large amount of high-quality treatment without which I would not have survived.

    I can't decide if this is funny or depressing... anyway, sorry for the mini-hijack.

  9. #9
    Olympic Champ therick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Columbus, Ohio
    Posts
    2,052

    Default Re: Here is an alternative to Obama's plan

    • Repeal all state laws which prevent insurance companies from competing across state lines. We should all have the legal right to purchase health insurance from any insurance company in any state and we should be able use that insurance wherever we live. Health insurance should be portable.

    So, the federal government should regulate all insurance, not the states? I though most 'states rights' people wanted the states to be in charge of more, not less.


    This is actually a federal mandate. I think it came about at around the same time the federal government forced Blue Cross/Blue Shield to break up into individual state entities. It really has very little to do with 'states rights' and more to do with preventing monopolies and anti-trust law.

    • Make costs transparent so that consumers understand what health-care treatments cost. How many people know the total cost of their last doctor's visit and how that total breaks down? What other goods or services do we buy without knowing how much they will cost us?

    This is the part I like the most. Just the other day I had a patient (she has privately bought health insurance because she and her husband are self-employed) complain that she had been scheduled for a CT scan, but wanted to know how much it cost. She called the hospital, her doctor's office, and her insurance company. No one would even give her a ballpark figure for how much the scan would cost. It's kinda sad. What other industry has so much secrecy behind it's pricing?

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •