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Thread: Globally Competitive?

  1. #1

    Default Globally Competitive?

    Just some things I've been thinking about.




    Most American's don't have a problem with offering/requiring education for all children.

    Even people without children and those whose children are grown up still pay to educate the younger generations.

    The rational is that we all have an interest in developing a productive and prepared workforce so our country can compete in the global market.

    We all benefit from a strong and well educated populous, so we all chip in to pay for it.

    It's a form of national security in a way.



    Can't the same philosophy be applied to health care? The healthier we are as a nation, the stronger we are as a national workforce. Also, financial inefficiency in our health care system is ultimately a burden on the country as a whole.

    Won't we all benefit from a physically healthier nation that spends less money in the process?



    And one more thing. We have more people incarcerated than any other country on Earth. Most of them are nonviolent offenders. Why is this so? What does this do for the viability of our country. Imagine the wasted human resources we have just sitting in cells. Imagine the economic strain of keeping them there.

    Can't we do better job of keeping people out of jails and in the workforce and with their families/children where they can be more productive?


    My point is...
    As a nation, it seems we view education, health care and incarceration in very different ways, yet all 3 have similar affects on the global competitiveness of America.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Globally Competitive?

    Ground & Pound - When you make the statement "most of them are non-violent offenders" how are you defining non-violent?

    R.I.P. Cyrano and Roxanne.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Globally Competitive?

    This looks like the most reliable source I could find.

    2002

    Violent offenses 25.4 %
    Property offenses 24.4 %
    Drug offenses 24.7 %
    Public-order offenses 24.9 % (DUI)

    http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/dcf/correct.htm

    I found conflicting stats on different sites. Some "pro-drug legalization" sites quote up to 70% incarcerated for drug possession and low level dealing.
    On the other hand, some government sites lumped all drug offenses with violent crimes.
    It's obvious that certain parties have an interest in skewing these facts.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Globally Competitive?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ground&Pound View Post
    Can't the same philosophy be applied to health care?
    You mean the same philosphy that we not only apply to education, but also law enforcement, national defense, transportation, the environment, recreation, etc? Because, obviously if we apply that same philosophy to healthcare it will make us socialist and everyone will die.
    There's no such thing as a pretty good aligator wrestler.

  5. #5
    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
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    Default Re: Globally Competitive?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ground&Pound View Post
    Just some things I've been thinking about.




    Most American's don't have a problem with offering/requiring education for all children.

    Even people without children and those whose children are grown up still pay to educate the younger generations.

    The rational is that we all have an interest in developing a productive and prepared workforce so our country can compete in the global market.

    We all benefit from a strong and well educated populous, so we all chip in to pay for it.

    It's a form of national security in a way.



    Can't the same philosophy be applied to health care? The healthier we are as a nation, the stronger we are as a national workforce. Also, financial inefficiency in our health care system is ultimately a burden on the country as a whole.

    Won't we all benefit from a physically healthier nation that spends less money in the process?



    And one more thing. We have more people incarcerated than any other country on Earth. Most of them are nonviolent offenders. Why is this so? What does this do for the viability of our country. Imagine the wasted human resources we have just sitting in cells. Imagine the economic strain of keeping them there.

    Can't we do better job of keeping people out of jails and in the workforce and with their families/children where they can be more productive?


    My point is...
    As a nation, it seems we view education, health care and incarceration in very different ways, yet all 3 have similar affects on the global competitiveness of America.

    Education is the most important thing that we can give someone and everyone has a right to it. health Care is tricky, if there was a way for those who can afford the best health care to keep it and allow everyone else to get some type of insurance while maintaining the budget and the quality of care we have now, I might be for it. If we had better education on how to live a healthy life and eliminated crap foods from schools, and mandated physical exercise as part of your core classes in school, we might go a long way towards eliminating those people who eat up the majority something like 80% of the health care costs in America, that is only 5% of the nation. That is ho I think we can get a better handle on the health care costs. I believe that prescription drugs cost to much and should be lower.

    If I had my preference i would apply the health funds to higher education. Allowing more people the opportunity to afford a better education.

    We have people incarcerated because they broke the law. It does not matter if they were violent offenders or not. Again more and better education could probably curb that.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Globally Competitive?

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    if there was a way for those who can afford the best health care to keep it and allow everyone else to get some type of insurance while maintaining the budget and the quality of care we have now, I might be for it.
    There is a system in one of the Scandanavian countries (Sweden or Switzerland I think) where everyone is required to buy insurance (sold by private insurers) to cover some basic level of care (that level is determined by the government), but the insurance companies are not allowed to make a profit from their sales of this baseline insurance. Those insurance companies can, however, make money by selling additional insurance to those who can afford and want it (so those who can afford the best care can still get it). The overall cost of healthcare in their system is way lower than that of the US (although there are tons of other factors in this).

    Since I heard about this sytem a year or so ago, I've been under the impression that it would be a good starting place if there was a push to actually change our current system. I'd also prefer if instead of insurers only paying for doctors who cost $X require the insurers to offer to pay $X per doctor visit reguardless of how much the doctor charges and let the patient make up the difference if they chose to go to a more expensive doctor (so there is incentive for doctors to treat patients better, instead of just treating more patients).
    There's no such thing as a pretty good aligator wrestler.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Globally Competitive?

    The right to an education was not in the Bill of Rights.

    It took a long time for universal education to be federally mandated.

    One of the main arguments for it was that it was good for the nation.

    The same could be argued for universal health care.

  8. #8
    World Champ ODH's Avatar
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    Default Re: Globally Competitive?

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    Education is the most important thing that we can give someone and everyone has a right to it. ...

    ...We have people incarcerated because they broke the law. It does not matter if they were violent offenders or not. Again more and better education could probably curb that.
    Interesting for constitutional purist (I believe that is an accurate description of your beliefs) to find a right to an education. Of course I agreee with you.

    As far as people breaking the law, no one is arguing that they should not be punished, but is incarceration the best way to punish / reform drug offenders?
    Looking at the costs and benefits to our society, there has to be a better way.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Globally Competitive?

    G&P I think I agree with everyhthing you say, but as regards those in prison there are lots of practical questions that need to be answered. If we think that the United States (or any nation) has too many prisoners, why is that? Does the nation have too much criminal activity? Are its laws too harsh to lawbreakers? Does it need to find non-incarceration methods of punishment as ODH suggests?

    I agree that "keeping people out of jails" is important, but unless people are being imprisoned unjustly there need to be alternate, sucessful methods of dealing with lawbreakers. Community service, rehabilitation programs, and so on might need to be more prominent. Also, methods of preventing people from commiting crimes in the first place, which might consist of expensive social programs- wealthier, happier people are probably less likely to commit crime.

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