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Thread: Capitalism is not natural

  1. #46

    Default Re: Capitalism is not natural

    Big, you don't have to clean toilets for $8 an hour. There are plenty of jobs in America that are toilet-free and pay more than $8 per hour.

    There is a counter-job (you know, where you sit at a counter, greet people, ring register, etc...) for $14 just down the road from me. I assume that my situation isn't unique.

    I don't know if these types of examples screw up your whole "the boss man is raping the working class" argument, but I figured I'm chime in.

  2. #47

    Default Re: Capitalism is not natural

    Quote Originally Posted by Big View Post
    Of course, if there are 100 new jobs to clean the toilets at luxury hotels for $8 an hour and 100 people that were laid off from an American automaker plant that paid them $15 an hour and have no other choice but to take those toilet-cleaning jobs that is still a great situation for skipster. No need to see what kinds of jobs are available as long as the jobs are created.

    Those luxury hotels owners are raking in the doe and the wealth of America is growing.
    Their may be fewer $15/hr jobs available, but the auto industry (especially) has shown that those practices were unsustainable. The top automaker in the world (Toyota Motor) is paying its employees the same or more than the US automakers, without unions. The demands of the unions (not just wages, but benefits also) were not conducive to profitable auto production. If the company don't make a profit, they can't afford to pay higher wages or hire as many people.

  3. #48
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    Default Re: Capitalism is not natural

    Flop, my example was just a generalization.

    skipster, profit is a relative factor. Even $1 more income than costs is a profit. The fact is most companies want a bigger profit at the expense of the workers.

  4. #49

    Default Re: Capitalism is not natural

    What's wrong with that?? Don't you want a bigger paycheck, too? Everyone wants to maximize his personal profit. That is human nature. Don't forget that the workers are making a choice to stay there. If they don't like it, they can always do something else.

  5. #50
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    Default Re: Capitalism is not natural

    Sure I want a bigger paycheck but would it be right to make my paycheck bigger by taking money away from other workers' paychecks?

    Sure, nobody is forcing workers to stay there but they have families and bills to pay. The fact that there is nothing better around doesn't mean it is right to rip off workers.

  6. #51

    Default Re: Capitalism is not natural

    Quote Originally Posted by Big View Post
    Sure I want a bigger paycheck but would it be right to make my paycheck bigger by taking money away from other workers' paychecks?

    Sure, nobody is forcing workers to stay there but they have families and bills to pay. The fact that there is nothing better around doesn't mean it is right to rip off workers.
    To declare that someone is taking money from other workers paychecks is to say that the workers had lawful right and expectation to the money, then it was not delivered. That has never been the case in lawful operations. YOu are talking about two different things. You are also assuming that the money belongs to the worker. That is not the case. The money belongs to the business and its owners. It is used to purchase labor and expertise from the worker. The worker is not entitled to it until he fulfills the obligations and expectations of the work agreement.

    As for ripping off workers, that is a subjective statement. Perhaps you think making $8/hr is ripping off a worker, but it is more than I make, so I think that would be a good deal. But, the worker has no right to someone else's moey and has no grounds fro taking more than is offered by the employer. But, the worker has the power and freedom to find someone who will pay him more. He also has the freedom and power to improve his skill set to make himself more marketable and valuable; and he has the freedom and power to go into business for himself.

    You are assuming that the employer's responsibility is to make sure that the employee can support himself. However, in this country that is not the case. In the US, a business is responsible only to its owners and people are responsible for themselves.

    So a worker has a family and bills? So what?! In a free system, we can not take from a party, regardless of what it goes to. This worker will have to support himself. It is not impossible -- hundreds of millions do it everyday in this country.

  7. #52
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    Default Re: Capitalism is not natural

    Look skipster, I understand the free system in America. I just don't agree with it. I do think workers are not getting enough money for the services they perform in many cases while the higher officials in companies receive too much money for what they do.

    I do not believe any CEO is worth 1000 times or more than his workers in $$$.

    If a worker makes $50K but a CEO makes $50 million then that is 1000 times more. I am categorically against anyone in the company making 1000 times more than anyone else in that company. Perhaps 10 times more should be the limit.

  8. #53

    Default Re: Capitalism is not natural

    That's fine. I'm glad that I was able to properly communicate my point and I'm glad that I understand yours.

    As you have found, there is room for lots of different thoughts and theories in the US. We are free to do with our own business whatever we like. I hope that someday you can own and run your own business in the manner that you like. Perhaps your personal philosophy will catch on and more people will run their businesses in your model (which I think Whole Foods and Costco also use).

    But, because we preserve freedom in the US, I don't think that the government can mandate those changes. I am certainly against the government mandating those changes, but I am certainly for individuals doing whatever they see fit. We may not always agree on specific points, but I will always stand by your freedom to do as you choose.

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