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Thread: Capitalism is not natural

  1. #19
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    Default Re: Capitalism is not natural

    Quote Originally Posted by LkwdSteve View Post
    What is against human nature is the dictatorship of the proletariat.
    Or, for that matter, any dictatorship.

  2. #20
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    Default Re: Capitalism is not natural

    Interesting matclone! Because I can argue America has a successive dictatorship. Dictatorship simply means someone dictates the rules. I can argue corporations dictate the rules to political officials by supporting their campaigns. People can't control who becomes the candidate and what decisions those politicians make once in office.

  3. #21
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    Default Re: Capitalism is not natural

    Setting aside his comment on Christianity, I generally agree with Big, who suggests capitalism results in ills, including inequities and the changing of our natural behavior (see video game thread for more evidence).

    Then the discussion sort of gets lost because it seems we're talking about different things. RYou, for example, equates trading amongst people with capitalism. They're not necessarily one in the same.

    I wish I knew more about this, but I've seen historians pinpoint the rise of capitalism as occuring in the 16th century. Obviously people traded before then, but later a different animal arose. Marx (18th century) is the foremost critique of capitalism as a theory. Defenders of capitalism should know what he was saying. One argument a defender of capitalism might make is: there have always been inequities; there always will be.

    Several suggestions are made the capitalism is necessary to motivate people. I'm not persuaded. I think that which motivates people is outside this system we call capitalism--in fact, I believe someone referred to competition--maybe not the same thing. If "capitalism" were crucial to motivate people, what happened before the 16th century? Or, in the 20th century, how were the Soviets and Cubans able to come up with scientists, and doctors, and world-class athletes? It wasn't from capitalism.

  4. #22
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    Default Re: Capitalism is not natural

    Quote Originally Posted by Big View Post
    Interesting matclone! Because I can argue America has a successive dictatorship. Dictatorship simply means someone dictates the rules. I can argue corporations dictate the rules to political officials by supporting their campaigns. People can't control who becomes the candidate and what decisions those politicians make once in office.
    I think you're using "dictatorship" too loosely. A dictatorship refers to someone with absolute power. We have many examples in history: Hitler, Stalin (would you agree?), some kings. As much as we think corporations have too much power in the U.S., their power isn't absolute. Therefore, it's not dictatorial.

  5. #23
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    Default Re: Capitalism is not natural

    Exactly matclone! Look at what we know about Archimedes. He made incredible inventions in his time but was never fond of riches:

    Although he is often regarded as a designer of mechanical devices, Archimedes also made important contributions to the field of mathematics. Plutarch wrote: “He placed his whole affection and ambition in those purer speculations where there can be no reference to the vulgar needs of life.” [30]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archimedes

  6. #24
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    Default Re: Capitalism is not natural

    Clone,

    In those countries it was the competetive nature of its ruler and the lack of good jobs that helped develope those things. There is a reason parents would give there kids to the government so they could become the best in a sport. Also what better motivator to be a champ than the promise of a more lucrative life than those who work in the fields. Is it not capitalism to gain a better life because you are a superior athlete and the government will hold you above the common man.

  7. #25
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    Default Re: Capitalism is not natural

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    Clone,
    Is it not capitalism to gain a better life because you are a superior athlete and the government will hold you above the common man.
    No. I think it's something else.

    You know, capitalism (and socialism, it's natural opposite) can take different forms. I think all economies in the world are mixed. Just as "capitalism" doesn't necessarily mean cut-throat, dog-eat-dog competition, "socialism" doesn't necessarily mean everyone is equal in every way. The difference, I suppose, exists in your starting point or overarching view of what we think is the best way to organize society, and when we say capitalism or socialism, that's probably what we're thinking of.
    Last edited by matclone; 07-18-2007 at 01:54 PM.

  8. #26
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    Default Re: Capitalism is not natural

    Quote Originally Posted by Big View Post
    Exactly matclone! Look at what we know about Archimedes. He made incredible inventions in his time but was never fond of riches:

    Although he is often regarded as a designer of mechanical devices, Archimedes also made important contributions to the field of mathematics. Plutarch wrote: ?He placed his whole affection and ambition in those purer speculations where there can be no reference to the vulgar needs of life.? [30]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archimedes
    Yes, good example.

  9. #27
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    Default Re: Capitalism is not natural

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    Clone,

    In those countries it was the competetive nature of its ruler and the lack of good jobs that helped develope those things. There is a reason parents would give there kids to the government so they could become the best in a sport. Also what better motivator to be a champ than the promise of a more lucrative life than those who work in the fields. Is it not capitalism to gain a better life because you are a superior athlete and the government will hold you above the common man.
    The main difference ugly is achieving fame doing something you are naturally good at is much more natural than doing something simply to make money. A usual comment of someone with a physics major working at a financial company is : "There is no money in physics."

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