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Thread: In God We Trust

  1. #1
    Ancient Arachnid Spider's Avatar
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    Default In God We Trust

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/mcclatchy/20...latchy/3274259

    Atheists sue to keep 'In God We Trust' off Capitol Visitor Center

    By Rob Hotakainen, McClatchy Newspapers Rob Hotakainen, Mcclatchy Newspapers ? Sat Jul 18, 6:00 am ET

    WASHINGTON ? A California Republican congressman wants to do a little writing on the walls of Washington's newest federal building. If Rep. Dan Lungren gets his way, Congress will spend nearly $100,000 to engrave the words "In God We Trust " and the Pledge of Allegiance in prominent spots at the Capitol Visitor Center.

    Lungren's proposal drew only a whimper of opposition last week when the House of Representatives voted 410-8 to approve it. Now, however, Lungren finds himself tussling with a national atheists and agnostics group.

    The Wisconsin -based Freedom From Religion Foundation Inc. sued this week to stop the engraving, accusing Lungren of trying to force his religious beliefs on as many as 15 percent of all U.S. adults. That comprises "atheists, agnostics, skeptics and freethinkers, none of whom possess a belief in a god," according to the lawsuit.

    "It really is a Judeo-Christian endorsement by our government, and so Lungren is wrong," said Dan Barker of Madison, Wis. , a co-president of the foundation. "Lungren and others are pro-religious, and they want to actually use the machinery of government to promote their particular private religious views. That is unconstitutional, and that's what we're asking the court to decide."
    The Senate has approved a similar plan introduced by Republican Sen. Jim DeMint of South Carolina . The congressional directive orders the Capitol architect to make the changes in the design of the $621 million center, which opened last December.

    The Freedom From Religion Foundation , which has 13,500 members, sued in U.S. District Court in Wisconsin . It alleges that Congress is trying to make belief in God synonymous with citizenship and "discouraging nonbelief" among Americans, a contention that Lungren rejects.
    Lungren said that the phrase "In God We Trust " had a long history and was consistent with the beliefs of America's founding fathers. He also said that the Declaration of Independence referred to rights given by a creator.

    Lungren, a former California attorney general, said that while the proposed engravings incorporated religious references, they didn't violate the Constitution.
    "What we're doing is making a specific historical reference to the beginnings of this republic," he said. "To ignore this or to forbid this statement or something like it to appear is to distort history. . . . We're not trying to change history. We're trying to enshrine history in the Capitol Visitor Center ."
    Barker said history was better left to others.

    "It's not the job of our government and our government buildings to do that," he said. "Historians can point out that many of our founders were indeed religious. But saying 'In God We Trust' in the visitors center of the Capitol is not just some historical reference. It's actually government speaking for all of us Americans."

    Barker said the foundation had been waiting for the right case to challenge "In God We Trust ." He said government actions could be challenged on state-church grounds if they had specific religious agendas. In this case, he said, backers of Lungren's plan have provided "the smoking guns" by giving specific, overt religious reasons for doing the engraving.

    Barker said that atheists regarded the phrase "In God We Trust " as rude, uncivil and un-American.

    "Tens of millions of really good Americans don't believe in God," he said. "In fact, there's many more nonbelievers than there are Jews, and we wouldn't think of offending Jews on our national monuments. . . . Why is it wrong to offend a Jewish minority but it's not wrong to offend those of us who serve in the military and sit on juries but we don't believe in God?"

    He said no hearing had been set.

    Lungren is confident that a federal judge will allow the engraving to proceed.

    "I never thought I'd see the day when someone would sue to stop us putting in the United States Capitol a statement of the national motto and the Pledge of Allegiance," he said. "Suggesting that the Pledge of Allegiance and the national motto is un-American in some way ? talk about turning ideas on their heads."
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    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
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    Default Re: In God We Trust

    I honestly think a lot of atheist and agnostics are just cry babies. They have got to complain about everything . It is not a surprise anymore.

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    Default Re: In God We Trust

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    I honestly think a lot of atheist and agnostics are just cry babies. They have got to complain about everything . It is not a surprise anymore.
    If all references to God were going to be eliminated from government buildings and documents (money), would you ignore it or be a "cry baby" about it? As you know, I think that it is an important issue, which you and I have discussed at length. I think the points the lawsuit makes in the article are very good and valid ones.

    Is this issue as important as the ecomomy? healthcare? terrorism? No, but it would also be much easier to fix than those problems.
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    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
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    Default Re: In God We Trust

    Quote Originally Posted by Spider View Post
    If all references to God were going to be eliminated from government buildings and documents (money), would you ignore it or be a "cry baby" about it? As you know, I think that it is an important issue, which you and I have discussed at length. I think the points the lawsuit makes in the article are very good and valid ones.

    Is this issue as important as the ecomomy? healthcare? terrorism? No, but it would also be much easier to fix than those problems.
    Spider I know how you feel and I dont begrudge you for it. I just feel that others that believe as you do are babies, they play the minority card all of the time. I guess they are lucky we dont live in a democracy.

    If they took God off of the money and other buildings I would be a little upset I guess. If it was to appease a minority of the country then i would be upset, other than that I dont know that I care anymore. As a Christian there are so many more important things to worry about, I dont think having God on our money or buildings is bringing anyone to Christ. Not having would have no affect on my faith, if they put "one nation without God" on our money it has no affect on my faith. I personally see the decline of God in our society as a proof that Jesus was God.

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    Default Re: In God We Trust

    I honestly think a lot of atheist and agnostics are just cry babies.

    There's a couple of things that I would dispute in that statement but I don't have the time or the willpower......
    Your ignorance is painful to witness.....

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    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
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    Default Re: In God We Trust

    Quote Originally Posted by Black-n-Red View Post
    I honestly think a lot of atheist and agnostics are just cry babies.

    There's a couple of things that I would dispute in that statement but I don't have the time or the willpower......
    IT is only one statement their are not multiple things to dispute. I assume you think that Christians are cry babies too, and I would agree. What else do you want to dispute?

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    Default Re: In God We Trust

    Eh, the first 3 words, I guess.....
    Your ignorance is painful to witness.....

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    Ancient Arachnid Spider's Avatar
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    Default Re: In God We Trust

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    If they took God off of the money and other buildings I would be a little upset I guess. If it was to appease a minority of the country then i would be upset, other than that I dont know that I care anymore. As a Christian there are so many more important things to worry about, I dont think having God on our money or buildings is bringing anyone to Christ. Not having would have no affect on my faith, if they put "one nation without God" on our money it has no affect on my faith. I personally see the decline of God in our society as a proof that Jesus was God.
    If I read into your post correctly, especially the last part, I think it shows that religion is a very personal thing for you and an intimate part of your life. That's just what I'm saying - religion is personal and individual. It doesn't belong in public government (I didn't say it doesn't belong in public, just in government). Keeping God out of government has nothing to do with any decline of God in our society. It's not the government's job to promote, criticize, or have any effect on religion. I lament that our society shows a selfishness, a lack of respect for others, and no accountability, and God may have been swept away along with proper behavior.
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    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
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    Default Re: In God We Trust

    Quote Originally Posted by Black-n-Red View Post
    Eh, the first 3 words, I guess.....
    Again nothing of substance.

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