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Thread: Health Care a Right?

  1. #19
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    Default Re: Health Care a Right?

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    If everyone started visiting the Dr. could that not become a serious cost driver? Also what age are those children if that is 18-35 I am not concerned about them. The majority of people needing medical attention fall in the 12 and under and over 65 from what I understand. I have also heard that 5% of people are 80% of the cost, I believe I heard that on CNN two nights ago.
    The most expensive health care is the sort that goes untreated and subsequently results in hospitalization. For example, you don't go to the doctor and he doesn't tell you to get a colonscopy at age 50 and you don't get it, and he doesn't check for prostate cancer, and doesn't advise you on risk factors for cardio disease much less tell you how to treat them: obesity, smoking, high blood pressure, poorly controlled blood sugar, lack of exercise, and high cholesterol and you don't do anything about these things and don't know much about these things and one day you have a heart attack or stroke and there you have expensive health care. The insured cos. have known this along time. Going to your doctor on a regular basis was one of the key components of that thing they started pushing in the late 80s called "managed care".

    One thing they did to avoid the thing you worry about: excessive visits (not that it was a major cost drive, but it was a cost), was to apply a small co-pay to each visit. I see no reason to get rid of the co-pay.
    Last edited by matclone; 06-24-2009 at 09:06 PM.

  2. #20

    Default Re: Health Care a Right?

    Quote Originally Posted by matclone View Post
    I see you found a definition of strawman, but you haven't applied to the statement in the essay. Of course, you can always refuse to recognize the strawman.

    Ah, the govt hasn't proposed anything but you know it will be far inferior to the present system. I get it.
    There is no strawman, Clone, despite what you may want to believe.

    With respect to what the government may propose, there are some good sources of information out there. Obama is not one of them as he craftilly avoids answering tough questions on most controversial issues. However, there are people on his staff (and in Congress) that have made suggestions about how the government will ration health care resources. The ideas I've heard are not good ideas.

  3. #21

    Default Re: Health Care a Right?

    With respect to what the government may propose, there are some good sources of information out there. Obama is not one of them as he craftilly avoids answering tough questions on most controversial issues. However, there are people on his staff (and in Congress) that have made suggestions about how the government will ration health care resources. The ideas I've heard are not good ideas.
    ....suggestions.....ideas I've heard.....

    Nope, no strawmen. Nada. Zip. Zilch.
    Your ignorance is painful to witness.....

  4. #22

    Default Re: Health Care a Right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chance174 View Post
    lol....Do you have something to talk about on this issue?
    Just the usual. Your side is loaded with knuckleheads. You guys are so deep in the forest that the sun never shines through.

    Just wait for more and more of your fellow nopublicans to get on board as they lose their insurance or have to wipe out all of their savings

    It's a lose lose situation for your pals. Obama started at the top and is willing to come down. That's what makes him a great politician and salesman.

  5. #23

    Default Re: Health Care a Right?

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    What about the ability to be seen by a doctor, which is a common problem in Canada and England,
    Your objective source?

    I just scheduled my annual physical yesterday and the soonest I can get in is August 25. What do you think of that, eh?

    Yeah, such awesome heath care we have here in the good ol' USA.

  6. #24

    Default Re: Health Care a Right?

    Quote Originally Posted by ArmyFan View Post
    Spider,

    Do you believe the quality of care would decline if "medical benefits were administered on a non-profit basis"?
    There is a country in Europe (Sweden or Switzerland I think) that have a 'universal health insurance' program, where the government sets some minimal care standard and everyone is required to buy insurance to meet this standard. But the insurance companies are not allowed to make any profit on insuring people up to this level (they can make money by selling additional coverage). It seeems to work pretty well at keeping costs down and providing everyone with adequate care.

    In terms of quality of care declining, I think our current system is contributing to this in a great way already. Since just about all the money that doctors make comes from insurance companies instead of the patients and insurance companies set the prices they'll pay for different treatments the financial incentive for doctors is to treat more people and less on providing better care.
    There's no such thing as a pretty good aligator wrestler.

  7. #25
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    Default Re: Health Care a Right?

    Quote Originally Posted by ArmyFan View Post
    With respect to what the government may propose, there are some good sources of information out there. Obama is not one of them as he craftilly avoids answering tough questions on most controversial issues. However, there are people on his staff (and in Congress) that have made suggestions about how the government will ration health care resources. The ideas I've heard are not good ideas.
    Why do you keep making references to the gov't "rationing health care" without acknowledging that health care is currently rationed by the private sector? Secondly, going vague ("there are some good sources of information out there" "there are people on his staff who have..." "the ideas have heard are not good...") is often the sign of someone who has no evidentiary support for his position. I guess that means you.

    The motto of right wing America: Be afraid. Always. We see this maxim applies to the current debate over national health care, as ghostly specters of gov't wrong doing are constantly thrown in the room, even though the gov't hasn't really formulated a plan. Most having accepted that health care reform is necessary, the American people are still debating the broad principles, i.e., what it should look like.

  8. #26
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    Default Re: Health Care a Right?

    Quote Originally Posted by FloggingSully View Post
    There is a country in Europe (Sweden or Switzerland I think) that have a 'universal health insurance' program, where the government sets some minimal care standard and everyone is required to buy insurance to meet this standard. But the insurance companies are not allowed to make any profit on insuring people up to this level (they can make money by selling additional coverage). It seeems to work pretty well at keeping costs down and providing everyone with adequate care.
    You may already be familiar with this but journalist TR Reid has made a documentary film called "Sick Around the World" in which he compares and contrasts different health care systems around the world. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl.../notebook.html.

    One thing I remember him asking different people in the film is: "How many people in your country go bankrupt because of medical bills" The answer: "None"

  9. #27
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    Default Re: Health Care a Right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chance174 View Post
    My father is an attorney for some large insurance companies and it is amazing what people will sue for. Now some are legit but most are just people trying to scam for more money.
    If they're suing the insurance company, chances are good that they're suing to have their medical bills paid. How that is a scam for more money I haven't figured out. Maybe you can explain.

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