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Thread: NYC Teachers

  1. #1

    Default NYC Teachers

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090622/...s_rubber_rooms

    <cite class="vcard"> By KAREN MATTHEWS, Associated Press Writer Karen Matthews, Associated Press Writer </cite> ? <abbr title="2009-06-22T14:20:55-0700" class="timedate">Mon Jun 22, 5:20 pm ET</abbr>
    <!-- end .byline --> NEW YORK ? Hundreds of New York City public school teachers accused of offenses ranging from insubordination to sexual misconduct are being paid their full salaries to sit around all day playing Scrabble, surfing the Internet or just staring at the wall, if that's what they want to do.
    Because their union contract makes it extremely difficult to fire them, the teachers have been banished by the school system to its "rubber rooms" ? off-campus office space where they wait months, even years, for their disciplinary hearings.
    The 700 or so teachers can practice yoga, work on their novels, paint portraits of their colleagues ? pretty much anything but school work. They have summer vacation just like their classroom colleagues and enjoy weekends and holidays through the school year.
    "You just basically sit there for eight hours," said Orlando Ramos, who spent seven months in a rubber room, officially known as a temporary reassignment center, in 2004-05. "I saw several near-fights. `This is my seat.' `I've been sitting here for six months.' That sort of thing."
    Ramos was an assistant principal in East Harlem when he was accused of lying at a hearing on whether to suspend a student. Ramos denied the allegation but quit before his case was resolved and took a job in California.
    Because the teachers collect their full salaries of $70,000 or more, the city Department of Education estimates the practice costs the taxpayers $65 million a year. The department blames union rules.
    "It is extremely difficult to fire a tenured teacher because of the protections afforded to them in their contract," spokeswoman Ann Forte said.
    City officials said that they make teachers report to a rubber room instead of sending they home because the union contract requires that they be allowed to continue in their jobs in some fashion while their cases are being heard. The contract does not permit them to be given other work.
    Ron Davis, a spokesman for the United Federation of Teachers, said the union and the Department of Education reached an agreement last year to try to reduce the amount of time educators spend in reassignment centers, but progress has been slow.
    "No one wants teachers who don't belong in the classroom. However, we cannot neglect the teachers' rights to due process," Davis said. The union represents more than 228,000 employees, including nearly 90,000 teachers.
    Many teachers say they are being punished because they ran afoul of a vindictive boss or because they blew the whistle when somebody fudged test scores.
    "The principal wants you out, you're gone," said Michael Thomas, a high school math teacher who has been in a reassignment center for 14 months after accusing an assistant principal of tinkering with test results.
    City education officials deny teachers are unfairly targeted but say there has been an effort under Mayor Michael Bloomberg to get incompetents out of the classroom. "There's been a push to report anything that you see wrong," Forte said.
    Some other school systems likewise pay teachers to do nothing.
    The Los Angeles district, the nation's second-largest school system with 620,000 students, behind New York's 1.1 million, said it has 178 teachers and other staff members who are being "housed" while they wait for misconduct charges to be resolved.
    Similarly, Mimi Shapiro, who is now retired, said she was assigned to sit in what Philadelphia calls a "cluster office." "They just sit you in a room in a hard chair," she said, "and you just sit."
    Teacher advocates say New York's rubber rooms are more extensive than anything that exists elsewhere.
    Teachers awaiting disciplinary hearings around the nation typically are sent home, with or without pay, Karen Horwitz, a former Chicago-area teacher who founded the National Association for the Prevention of Teacher Abuse. Some districts find non-classroom work ? office duties, for example ? for teachers accused of misconduct.
    New York City's reassignment centers have existed since the late 1990s, Forte said. But the number of employees assigned to them has ballooned since Bloomberg won more control over the schools in 2002. Most of those sent to rubber rooms are teachers; others are assistant principals, social workers, psychologists and secretaries.
    Once their hearings are over, they are either sent back to the classroom or fired. But because their cases are heard by 23 arbitrators who work only five days a month, stints of two or three years in a rubber room are common, and some teachers have been there for five or six.
    The nickname refers to the padded cells of old insane asylums. Some teachers say that is fitting, since some of the inhabitants are unstable and don't belong in the classroom. They add that being in a rubber room itself is bad for your mental health.
    "Most people in that room are depressed," said Jennifer Saunders, a high school teacher who was in a reassignment center from 2005 to 2008. Saunders said she was charged with petty infractions in an effort to get rid of her: "I was charged with having a student sit in my class with a hat on, singing."
    The rubber rooms are monitored, some more strictly than others, teachers said.
    "There was a bar across the street," Saunders said. "Teachers would sneak out and hang out there for hours."
    Judith Cohen, an art teacher who has been in a rubber room near Madison Square Garden for three years, said she passes the time by painting watercolors of her fellow detainees.
    "The day just seemed to crawl by until I started painting," Cohen said, adding that others read, play dominoes or sleep. Cohen said she was charged with using abusive language when a girl cut her with scissors.
    Some sell real estate, earn graduate degrees or teach each other yoga and tai chi.
    David Suker, who has been in a Brooklyn reassignment center for three months, said he has used the time to plan summer trips to Alaska, Cape Cod and Costa Rica. Suker said he was falsely accused of throwing a girl's test sign-up form in the garbage during an argument.
    "It's sort of peaceful knowing that you're going to work to do nothing," he said.
    Philip Nobile is a journalist who has written for New York Magazine and the Village Voice and is known for his scathing criticism of public figures. A teacher at Brooklyn's Cobble Hill School of American Studies, Nobile was assigned to a rubber room in 2007, "supposedly for pushing a boy while I was breaking up a fight." He contends the school system is retaliating against him for exposing wrongdoing.
    He is spending his time working on his case and writing magazine articles and a novel.
    "This is what happens to political prisoners throughout history," he said, alluding to the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. "They put us in prison and we write our `Letter From the Birmingham Jail.'"

  2. #2
    Olympic Champ r.payton@att.net's Avatar
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    Default Re: NYC Teachers

    I was just about to post this -just to show how difficult it really is to fire a tenured teacher and to point out the waste . At least these 700 are being 'honest' about the situation -alot of tenured teachers do the same thing but pretend to be teaching . BURN the system down -

  3. #3

    Default Re: NYC Teachers

    Quote Originally Posted by ArmyFan View Post
    The 700 or so teachers can practice yoga, work on their novels, paint portraits of their colleagues ? pretty much anything but school work. They have summer vacation just like their classroom colleagues and enjoy weekends and holidays through the school year.
    This American Life on NPR did a story on this a while ago and the picture they painted of what these teachers do all day is was way different than the relaxed country-club type image this article paints.

    Quote Originally Posted by ArmyFan View Post
    Because the teachers collect their full salaries of $70,000 or more, the city Department of Education estimates the practice costs the taxpayers $65 million a year.
    How many teachers in NY actually make $70,000/year? Looks to me like they start way lower than that. It seems to me like the author is trying to convince people that these teachers are being paid an exorbitant amount to sit around and practice yoga.

    Quote Originally Posted by ArmyFan View Post
    The department blames union rules.
    Of course they do, the only other option is to blame themselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by ArmyFan View Post
    "It is extremely difficult to fire a tenured teacher because of the protections afforded to them in their contract," spokeswoman Ann Forte said.
    I doubt it's that hard to fire someone who's been committed sexual misconduct. If a teachers been insubordinate they can be moved to another school and fired if it keeps happening. None of this explains why some teachers are waiting over a year for a disciplinary hearings. Maybe there is some way we can blame the unions for that also.


    Quote Originally Posted by ArmyFan View Post
    City officials said that they make teachers report to a rubber room instead of sending they home because the union contract requires that they be allowed to continue in their jobs in some fashion while their cases are being heard. The contract does not permit them to be given other work.
    Does the union contract prevent the school board from giving these teachers timely hearings?
    There's no such thing as a pretty good aligator wrestler.

  4. #4

    Default Re: NYC Teachers

    contract prevent the school board from giving these teachers timely hearings?Does the union
    Of course they do, FloggingSully. Unions alone could be the whole downfall of capitalism, what with forcing business owners to capitulate to all their incessant demands.

    We all know that all-powerful teachers unions are the sole reason our American school system is a miserable failure, what with all these kids these days who graduate and can't name the fifty state capitals or who wrote the Declaration of Independence.

    Do away with all unions and our economy would simply flourish. Ask any Wall Street Journal subscriber....
    Your ignorance is painful to witness.....

  5. #5
    World Champ ODH's Avatar
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    Default Re: NYC Teachers

    Quote Originally Posted by ArmyFan View Post
    ... But because their cases are heard by 23 arbitrators who work only five days a month, stints of two or three years in a rubber room are common...
    At the supposed cost of $65 million per year, I think the city should be able to hire some more arbitrators.

    The process seems reasonable, the time spent waiting is ridiculous.

  6. #6
    Olympic Champ clmetal's Avatar
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    Default Re: NYC Teachers

    FS - looks like $70g is a good estimate of the average, what they start at is certainly not an indicator of the average.

    NYT here says $125g is almost double the average salary (meaning the average salary is more than $62,500). And that is for working 9 months.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/07/ny...rter.html?_r=1

    NYC spends $14g a year per kid and still manages to have terrible schools.

    Teachers in the NYC teachers unions are hard to fire - seems like you are just defending them to side with unions here. See how many tenured teachers have been fired if you want to discuss details.
    "I don?t give a f_ck about money, bro. Believe me when I tell you that." Dana White

  7. #7

    Default Re: NYC Teachers

    I admit I don't know much about the teacher's union. All I remember is my mother complaining about them...she was a teacher for years and then a sub for years as well. I would be interested to hear what teachers on here have to say about the Union.

  8. #8

    Default Re: NYC Teachers

    Quote Originally Posted by clmetal View Post
    Teachers in the NYC teachers unions are hard to fire - seems like you are just defending them to side with unions here. See how many tenured teachers have been fired if you want to discuss details.
    I don't see how tenured teachers being hard to fire is at all relevant to the story. The article was about teachers sitting around for months (or years) waiting for disciplinary hearings still collecting pay checks. How hard it is to fire them doesn't matter if they aren't even getting hearings. The article came across to me as the author looking for any excuse possible to dump on unions.

    I don't know how many tenured teachers have been fired. How many teachers are tenured in NY? How many of the teachers waiting for hearings are tenured? How much easier would it be to fire these tenured teachers if they actually had a hearing?
    There's no such thing as a pretty good aligator wrestler.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: NYC Teachers

    Public school teachers have a constitutional right (Ron Davis corrrectly refers to this as due process) to a hearing on a matter of termination whether a union exists or not. Unless I missed it, the author doesn't really address the issue as to why there is a delay in the hearing process. But a non-critical reader might conclude that it (it being anything gone wrong) is all the union's fault.

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