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Thread: NYC Teachers

  1. #10
    Olympic Champ clmetal's Avatar
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    Default Re: NYC Teachers

    Quote Originally Posted by FloggingSully View Post
    I don't see how tenured teachers being hard to fire is at all relevant to the story. The article was about teachers sitting around for months (or years) waiting for disciplinary hearings still collecting pay checks. How hard it is to fire them doesn't matter if they aren't even getting hearings. The article came across to me as the author looking for any excuse possible to dump on unions.

    I don't know how many tenured teachers have been fired. How many teachers are tenured in NY? How many of the teachers waiting for hearings are tenured? How much easier would it be to fire these tenured teachers if they actually had a hearing?
    10 - 15 a year out of 90,000 teachers.

    This is a way of removing them from the classroom but it's very difficult to fire them.

    I see your point on a hearing, but I think this is all they can do in light of the union.
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  2. #11
    Olympic Champ r.payton@att.net's Avatar
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    Default Re: NYC Teachers

    After a teacher has been in a system for 5-10 years the system wants them gone because they simply cost too much and alot of districts will harass a teacher into quitting -the same type practice is run everywhere -anyone watch the film Office Space ??-they lay guys off after 3-4 years and farm the work out to Singapore ?? Same thing here only they hire new teachers at a 40% reduction.
    In the states I have taught -they really do NOT want tenured teachers -they are impossible to fire and make too much money -but the teachers are not the ones who force themselves to go back and get their master's plus -but when they do the districts have no desire to pay them .
    I am willing to wager a lot of those teachers are simply being messed with and are quilty of nothing -in CA. most teachers with 10 plus and master's plus tenure are earning 6 figures .Some are good -more bad -if you were an admin would you rather have 4-5 eager new employees or the same old bag of dirt who has been there forever ??

  3. #12
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    Default Re: NYC Teachers

    The poor city, like the poor automobile mfrs. The union presumably hired a bunch of wrestlers to come in and apply a few chicken wings, arm bars, and other movements of persuasion to city leaders--until they were forced to signed a contract on the union's terms. You can see the effect in their shaky signatures. And now look what happened!

  4. #13
    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
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    Default Re: NYC Teachers

    Quote Originally Posted by matclone View Post
    The poor city, like the poor automobile mfrs. The union presumably hired a bunch of wrestlers to come in and apply a few chicken wings, arm bars, and other movements of persuasion to city leaders--until they were forced to signed a contract on the union's terms. You can see the effect in their shaky signatures. And now look what happened!
    You are right Clone. The people on the other side of the negotiating table are also to blame. They need to crack down and quit negotiating with the teachers hire scabs and let those teachers go that dont want to play ball.

  5. #14

    Default Re: NYC Teachers

    They need to crack down and quit negotiating with the teachers hire scabs and let those teachers go that dont want to play ball.
    Someone needs to go do a little research on the topic of labor laws in this country. You can start with the National Labor Relations Act.

    This is 2009....not 1909.
    Last edited by Black-n-Red; 06-23-2009 at 08:49 PM.
    Your ignorance is painful to witness.....

  6. #15
    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
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    Default Re: NYC Teachers

    That is funny because as a teacher you do not have the right to negotiate your contract independent of the teachers union. As a firefighter at least in Denver you have no choice but to be part of the union and you also can not negotiate a contract independent of the union.

    The government is not required to negotiate any terms with a union. They can low ball the union and when they strike they can hire scabs or as President Reagan did fire them and hire new teachers.

    Better yet in a right to work state employers have the right to fire you for any reason they see fit as long as it dies not include your affiliation with a union or your religion,sex, race etc.

  7. #16

    Default Re: NYC Teachers

    That is funny because as a teacher you do not have the right to negotiate your contract independent of the teachers union. As a firefighter at least in Denver you have no choice but to be part of the union and you also can not negotiate a contract independent of the union.
    ...and if you could negotiate an independent contract, that would really defeat the purpose of having a union, wouldn't it?

    Listening to people complain about unions is like listening to teenagers complain about cops. Sure, some cops harass kids a bit, some kids deserve it......but no sensible adult really wants to see cops eliminated.
    Your ignorance is painful to witness.....

  8. #17

    Default Re: NYC Teachers

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    You are right Clone. The people on the other side of the negotiating table are also to blame. They need to crack down and quit negotiating with the teachers hire scabs and let those teachers go that dont want to play ball.
    How does the union have anything to do with this problem? It has nothing to do with any union negotiations. Whoever is in charge of holding disiplinary hearings is failing miserabley and is blaming unions because it's 'hard to fire tenured teachers'. How is it that it being hard to fire tenured teachers make it so difficult to have a reasonable schedule for disiplinary hearing for teachers (tenured or otherwise).

    The unions have nothing to with this at all, but someone blames them (instead of themselves) and people start arguing about whether it's the unions or the peopel negotiating with the unions who are at fault. It's rediculous.
    There's no such thing as a pretty good aligator wrestler.

  9. #18
    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
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    Default Re: NYC Teachers

    I would say that there is language that requires them to pay full salaries while awaiting a trial or arbitration. I would also bet that the union has appealed the arbitration prolonging the ability to get it done quickly. You cant really dock their pay if they are not found guilty of anything. As i also said and I meant, the people that are in charge of these matters are also to blame, even more so if they are moving slow.

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