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Thread: Affirmative Action -still needed or outdated

  1. #19

    Default Re: Affirmative Action -still needed or outdated

    Clone,

    Why did you pull your response?

  2. #20
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    Default Re: Affirmative Action -still needed or outdated

    Truncated version of what I posted before:

    Quote Originally Posted by ArmyFan View Post
    Despite what matclone says, there are undoubtedly quota actions in the US. I've been a part of organizations hiring a new class of "associates" and we were given explicit numbers of the racial and gender makeup of the class (ie. at least X# African Americans, at least Y# women, etc).
    Last I checked it was illegal to hire or fire someone because of their race or gender. But I could be wrong.

    http://www.eeoc.gov/types/race.html
    http://www.eeoc.gov/policy/docs/qanda_race_color.html

  3. #21

    Default Re: Affirmative Action -still needed or outdated

    Quote Originally Posted by arm-spin View Post
    Oh and by the way WUW, Chance hasn't said anything inappropriate in this thead. Diagreeing with him is fine but to attack him and put racist words in his mouth is a pile of crap.
    x2........
    There's no such thing as a pretty good aligator wrestler.

  4. #22

    Default Re: Affirmative Action -still needed or outdated

    Quote Originally Posted by matclone View Post
    Truncated version of what I posted before:



    Last I checked it was illegal to hire or fire someone because of their race or gender. But I could be wrong.

    http://www.eeoc.gov/types/race.html
    http://www.eeoc.gov/policy/docs/qanda_race_color.html
    That may be what the law says, but we both can agree it's not reality. Discrimination works both ways. People are hired and fired for a variety of reasons. I briefly described a few examples of affirmative action gone wrong. I could list several more examples I've encountered in life.

  5. #23
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    Default Re: Affirmative Action -still needed or outdated

    No, I didn't agree that violating the law, or a quota system, was reality.

  6. #24

    Default Re: Affirmative Action -still needed or outdated

    Quote Originally Posted by matclone View Post
    No, I didn't agree that violating the law, or a quota system, was reality.
    You honestly don't believe some organizations have quotas with respect to hiring practices?

    Do you honestly not believe organizations sometimes hire a desired/target ethnic/gender candidate who is less qualified than a candidate who does not meet the ethnic/gender quality?

    You've never encountered anything of the sort in your life?

  7. #25
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    Default Re: Affirmative Action -still needed or outdated

    Quote Originally Posted by matclone View Post
    A few remarks:

    Flogging Sully is the only one to ask about the practice of Affirm Action. I think most people probably misunderstand how it works--equating it w/the promotion of an unqualified person, when it is not. R.payton gives us a report about an event in Little Rock--which, as far as I can see, has nothing whatsoever to do with the practice of Affirmative Action. But one could easily take from his anecdote about this school that black people are somehow inferior--let's say unambitious--playing on racial stereotypes that still exist. Ban B. knows more about AA than I do. Unfortunately he no longer seems to be posting.

    Has someone here been mistreated somehow by Affirm Action? I always wonder about a white person's motive in raising this issue. If you've never been denied an opportunity that you know of, and especially if you have a good job now, you're concerned about Affirm Action because..? Because you, as a white person don't want to be offended by talk about our racial history? Because you hold some sort of paternal attitude toward "those" people, and feel AA is holding them back somehow? I think it's telling that the one major case about this issue before the U.S. Supreme Ct, involved a white woman who couldn't get into the U of Mich law school (a very elite school). I'm sure she suffered tremendously because she had to (and presumably could) go to law school at a "lesser" school.

    Nothwithstanding all our efforts and ambitions, we are made up as persons in part by our fathers and their fathers before them. This includes, among other things, our attitudes toward education. I believe it's axiomatic that a person who comes from a less educated family is less likely to envison the top, much less succeed in climbing the educational ladder. Conversely, if you come from a well educated family, it is very likely that you will be expected as a young person to climb the education ladder. Salient fact: in my lifetime, black people were discouraged and sometimes even barred from an education. I'm still benefitting from the fact that my daddy was white. He graduated from high school. Black men of his generation averaged a 6th grade education per a book I read on MLK Jr. (also being of that generation).

    Yes, socioeconomic status is a factor in achievement. But I don't think it is easily separated from race--unless we ignore history and its effect on us today.

    It's fine to think and talk about a colorblind society. But we're not anywhere near that. And in any case, I always hear this from white people--they who tend to reserve the right (as they've traditionally done) to judge matters of race.
    I was simply using the Little rock event -since it was on TV-as a microcosm of society -in fact the show spends most of the time showing how polarized races have become -there will NEVER be a color blind society and lincoln said as much in the Emancipation Proclamation where he calls for a repatriation of the Blacks to Africa as they would never be seen as equal in america .

  8. #26

    Default Re: Affirmative Action -still needed or outdated

    Quote Originally Posted by ArmyFan View Post
    You honestly don't believe some organizations have quotas with respect to hiring practices?

    Do you honestly not believe organizations sometimes hire a desired/target ethnic/gender candidate who is less qualified than a candidate who does not meet the ethnic/gender quality?

    You've never encountered anything of the sort in your life?
    Perhaps Matclone hasn't personally seen such instances. However, there have been a number of legal cases where the courts have ruled that this has occurred. Currently, there is an interesting case before the Supreme Court having to do with this issue (i.e., Ricci case).

    On another note, I noticed your comments about recruiting wherein you said your organization had goals, but not hard quotas. I was wondering if you are familiar with the term "soft quotas" and, if so, do you believe it aptly describes that situation?
    Last edited by HurricaneWrestling; 06-20-2009 at 12:26 PM. Reason: mispelling

  9. #27

    Default Re: Affirmative Action -still needed or outdated

    I'm sure many companies want diversity to appeal to a broader market. That doesn't mean the minority who gets a job was somehow less qualified.

    I've got a buddy who owns a law firm in Chicago. He always hires Hispanic receptionists so that he can more easily gain Hispanic clients.

    I'm guessing lots of companies make similar decisions.
    Your ignorance is painful to witness.....

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