Donny Baseball vs Mex

matclone · 07-18-2008, 05:16 PM

No, it's not too complicated. I just think your argument is flawed.

Zapp Brannigan · 07-18-2008, 05:23 PM

He was Co-MVP with Willie Stargell.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/stargwi01.shtml

Go ahead and look at Mr. Stargell's stats for 1979 and tell me it wasn't a lifetime achievement award.

DingoBrigade · 07-18-2008, 05:30 PM

Well, I can live with that. I think I spelled it out pretty well.

Both guys were premier fielders: Edge, but not huge, to Hernandez.

Both guys were very good overall hitters: Slightly bigger edge to Mattingly.

First basemen are supposed to drive in runs: Even bigger advantage to Mattingly.

--With the game on the line, you don't want to pitch to Keith because he's liable to smack a double. You are terrified to pitch to Don because he was a consummate slugger in his prime.

Batting eye: Keith walked more, not too far from twice as much, Don struck out less than half as often as Keith. Don had a better BA during each man's prime. Overall edge: Don

Baserunning: Neither were big threats to steal bases. Both were smart baserunners on the basepaths, though. Very slight edge to Hernandez, with more SBs. However, even at his SB height, he got caught stealing way too much. Caught stealing around 2X for every 3X he stole a base. A horrible %. Nonetheless, Edge: Hernandez

DingoBrigade · 07-18-2008, 05:33 PM

Originally Posted by Zapp Brannigan

He was Co-MVP with Willie Stargell.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/stargwi01.shtml

Go ahead and look at Mr. Stargell's stats for 1979 and tell me it wasn't a lifetime achievement award.

Stargell was a premiere slugger (32 HRs) and was the leader of a team that won the World Series. No way that was a lifetime achievement award. Some might say giving it to a Wade Boggs type hitter for a team that finished 3rd in their division might've been a little crazy. It's hard to imagine a guy winning MVP with 11 HRs.

Zapp Brannigan · 07-18-2008, 05:34 PM

Edge to MAttingly in overall hitting? Seriously? Keith had better BA, better OBP. Obviously I'll give you the power, but overall hitter, Hernandez is better then Mattingly.

Also, once again, Hernandez' teams won.

matclone · 07-18-2008, 05:38 PM

Originally Posted by DingoBrigade

Some might say giving it to a Wade Boggs type hitter for a team that finished 3rd in their division might've been a little crazy. It's hard to imagine a guy winning MVP with 11 HRs.

Hernandez, of course, was nothing like Boggs.

Did you come over here from the troll board, or did you just want to show your ignorance of baseball history?

DingoBrigade · 07-18-2008, 05:38 PM

Well, Stargell's team won the whole shooting match in 1979 and he still had to share his award with a soft-hitting 1B. You can't have it both ways here, as you're so fond of saying.

If you'll go back to the original gist of the debate, gantry and I were discussing a healthy version of each player, in each player's prime. From 84-87, Mattingly was a much, much, much better hitter than any similar era in Hernandez's career. You can't punish a player for debilitating injuries.

Zapp Brannigan · 07-18-2008, 05:40 PM

Originally Posted by DingoBrigade

Stargell was a premiere slugger (32 HRs) and was the leader of a team that won the World Series. No way that was a lifetime achievement award. Some might say giving it to a Wade Boggs type hitter for a team that finished 3rd in their division might've been a little crazy. It's hard to imagine a guy winning MVP with 11 HRs.

32 HR's is a premier slugger? Killebrew had 48 just that season, he wasn't even the premier slugger in the league, not even close.

He played in 126 games, hit UNDER .300, 19 doubles, .352 OBP. THose aren't MVP numbers.

Also, I repeat, 11 CONSECUTIVE Gold Gloves and the MLB record with 129 GAMEWINNING RBI's.

DingoBrigade · 07-18-2008, 05:42 PM

Originally Posted by matclone

Hernandez, of course, was nothing like Boggs.

Did you come over here from the troll board, or did you just want to show your ignorance of baseball history?

Awww, that's cute. Someone's all riled up b/c they didn't read what was written. All I've brought to this discussion is fact.

Hernandez was a contact hitter, with a lower BA (in each player's best season and lifetime) than Boggs. Boggs, in fact, had a much higher SLG and a lot more HRs in 1987 than Keith did in any of his seasons. Boggs's career SLG is actually higher! His OBP is much, much higher. So, I guess you're right. Hernandez was NOTHING like Boggs. A pale imitation if you will.

Zapp Brannigan · 07-18-2008, 05:43 PM

Originally Posted by DingoBrigade

Well, Stargell's team won the whole shooting match in 1979 and he still had to share his award with a soft-hitting 1B. You can't have it both ways here, as you're so fond of saying.

I'm going to have to ask you to defend this statement. How am I "trying to have it both ways"?

If you'll go back to the original gist of the debate, gantry and I were discussing a healthy version of each player, in each player's prime. From 84-87, Mattingly was a much, much, much better hitter than any similar era in Hernandez's career. You can't punish a player for debilitating injuries.

Donny Baseball never had an OBP over .400. Keith Hernandez did that 7 times.

Donny Baseball vs Mex

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