Discuss can some one tell me why? at the Non Wrestling Talk within the Wrestling Talk Forums; I really think its easy to say "If I was there ...."
A lot of ...
I really think its easy to say "If I was there ...."
A lot of us may or may have had a gun pointed at our faces (a loaded one), and it's a freeze moment. A real moment of helplessness. You can always go through the motions in your head.
Had a gun pulled on me once and I froze, lose my life or give the guy my hat?
JB - as sad as it was that you missed this conversation, I was told today at lunch that is it my duty as an American to take a stand to people like this. I can't remember everything else said but it all went along those lines.
Champions are made while no one is watching.
I just re-read my post. Can you point out to me where I said, or implied, that any of them were less of a man? That certainly was not my intention. Rather, I was attempting to offer my own sense of confusion over the issue and a couple of possible reasons for the behavior of those in the room.
Originally Posted by matclone
Mike R: all you say may be true but, yes, you are second guessing a situation you weren't in, and the guys in the room aren't combat vets, and that doesn't make any of them any less of a man.
Well, they may not been less of men.... but they ended up dead. Which means they are, well..... dead.
Those rooms needed a couple of adrenelin junkies. Or people who just do things. You never know for sure.... but I've had a few experiences... and I am pretty sure I would not have just laid there, closed my eyes, and died. But that reaction is sort of a family trait.... and I have lots of stories to back that up. It might have something to do with not being afraid to die in the first place.
I thought this guy had some valid comments on this subject -
VA Tech students under fire: Why didn't someone stop Cho?
.....Let?s consider a few of those tactical variables in the case of the Virginia Tech massacre.
Aside from being armed with two (easily reloadable) semi-automatic pistols with plenty of ammunition, the shooter, Cho, had countless advantages as he entered each classroom:
1) Cho possessed the elements of both surprise and shock: The latter includes terror, which can in many instances physically, mentally, and emotionally paralyze the victims.
2) Cho was in close-enough quarters ? with few exits ? that his victims would have found it extremely difficult to escape: In fact, he was ? in many cases ? positioned in front of the only door in a given classroom.
3) In almost every classroom, Cho?s field of fire would have been between 45 and 90-degree angles, affording him complete coverage of every space in the room at any one moment.
4) Cho?s victims would have had no cover (physical protection from Cho?s bullets) and virtually no concealment at any time during the attack.
5) The small, terrible space between the doorway - which Cho would have entered with guns blazing ? and the groupings of desks where the victims would have been sitting, would have been the deadliest space in the room. For a student to rush Cho, the student would have had to immediately overcome the shock of the attack, unhesitatingly bolt from his or her desk, and charge exposed and unarmed directly across the deadliest space in the room to the source of the killings. This would have been a wholly unnatural act for anyone (I?ll explain this in a moment), yet we may never know if one or two victims actually did do this.
6) The charging, unarmed student would have had no way of knowing whether or not there were more unseen gunmen following behind the visible shooter, Cho.
7) Cho was a fanatic, and prepared to die in his own attack.
8) Most of the victims were young, and probably none of them had any combat training, much less experience under fire: The exception being Dr. Liviu Librescu, the 76-year-old professor and Holocaust survivor who sacrificed himself for his students.
Twenty-five years ago as a Marine infantryman, I remember my squad constantly running immediate action drills: the actions taken in response to an ambush while on patrol.
We were always taught to counterattack directly in the face of the ambush, quickly closing the gap between us and the enemy, and in doing so, attempt to gain fire superiority by shooting back.
We practiced the immediate action drills over-and-over for two reasons. First, if in the event of an actual ambush we were to have sought cover or attempted to run (the natural human reaction), we would have been shot to pieces and the squad probably wiped out. Second, if we didn?t practice the immediate action drills until they became instinctive responses to an ambush, we ? just like any other human beings ? would instinctively run, seek cover, or hit the deck. And we were U.S. Marines, so there was never a dearth of courage or aggressiveness.....
W. Thomas Smith Jr. is a former U.S. Marine infantry leader, parachutist, and shipboard counterterrorism instructor and co-author of The Complete Idiot's Guide to Pirates.
You didn't, really. The manhood issue was me just making a general statement, not directed to you, and it was a reference to the article from National Review I posted earlier (I think on the first page of this thread) in which the author clearly did question whether the boys were "real" men.
Originally Posted by M Richardson
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