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Thread: London Olympics: General Discussion Thread

  1. #28
    World Champ ODH's Avatar
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    Default Re: London Olympics: General Discussion Thread

    Watching more Judo this morning. Lots are matches being decided only on penatlies (essentially stalling calls). Not sure what is worse relying on referees calls to win or clinches. The penalties in Judo at least seem more obvious than the passivity calls I remember in interenational wrestling.

    Another observation, to my somewhat expert eye, is that the Women's Judo competition is pretty much on the same level as the mens, which is clearly not the case in Women's wrestling.

  2. #29

    Default Re: London Olympics: General Discussion Thread

    Admittedly I dont understand the ins and outs of Judo, but i prefer multiple scores instead of one. You spend half the time watching them fix their gi.
    To avoid criticism say nothing, do nothing, be nothing.

  3. #30
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    Default Re: London Olympics: General Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by vaisforlovers View Post
    Admittedly I dont understand the ins and outs of Judo, but i prefer multiple scores instead of one. You spend half the time watching them fix their gi.
    True that.. they also spend alot of time playing on the edge so there is alot of stoppages due to out of bounds. There used a marked area at the edge which was the warning zone and if you ended up there and did not work your way out it was a penalty. I remember wrestling used to have a similar rule and markings on the mat.

  4. #31
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    Default Re: London Olympics: General Discussion Thread

    Right now I'm watching two Argentinian women play the USA. They're on a beach hitting a ball over a net, but who really cares what they're doing.
    Atrophy: what you get when you win atournament.

  5. #32

    Default Re: London Olympics: General Discussion Thread

    France just paid us one back in the 4x100 free from Beijing.

    Huge effort by their #3 guy set their anchor up who ran down Lochte to win on a touch.
    RIP Jacob Schlottke - 1984-2011

    "If Cornell finishes ahead of Iowa with five all americans I'll jump into the Des Moines River after finals." -Herkey#1 8/16/12

  6. #33

    Default Re: London Olympics: General Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ODH View Post
    True that.. they also spend alot of time playing on the edge so there is alot of stoppages due to out of bounds. There used a marked area at the edge which was the warning zone and if you ended up there and did not work your way out it was a penalty. I remember wrestling used to have a similar rule and markings on the mat.
    My judo instructor competed in the world games in the early 60's. He said the mat was raised a few feet and that was the out of bounds. No line, no warning. Just BLAM! He also calls us a bunch of pussies ( with a Korean accent) because of the line. He also complains about the "rolls" that they call throws now.

    ODH, watch for Kayla Harrison. She beat up my son 6 yrs ago when her gym came to ours. Shes favored to at least medal and shes even beaten the top ranked girl. I think her matches start Thursday.

  7. #34

    Default Re: London Olympics: General Discussion Thread

    ODH what are the ground fighting rules for Judo? In the little I watch there were a lot of unsucessful attacks (what we would call a mis-throw in wrestling) and the guy on top would screw around for a few seconds and then get up.

    Also, I noticed the throws were more leg-sweep and hip toss based, and lacked the back-arch seen in high level greco.

  8. #35
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    Default Re: London Olympics: General Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by arm-spin View Post
    ODH what are the ground fighting rules for Judo? In the little I watch there were a lot of unsucessful attacks (what we would call a mis-throw in wrestling) and the guy on top would screw around for a few seconds and then get up.

    Also, I noticed the throws were more leg-sweep and hip toss based, and lacked the back-arch seen in high level greco.
    On the ground you can win three ways. A submission with a choke or an armlock. If you able to hold someone back to the mat for 25 seconds the match is over as well. For a hold down you need to outside your opponent's legs (passed the guard for those familiar with Ju-Jitsu or MMA). I see a lot of defense on the ground to just wrap up one leg and hold on.

    I would think that someone who is more used to Freestyle than US wrestling would have an easier time with the scoring from the feet. You have to take an action to get a score (Do they still have slip throws in wrestling?) and all takedowns are not scored equally. In Judo they need to land on their back to score at all and depending on how much they land on their back and how hard and fast the throw was the score increases. At the Olympic level some of the athletes are incredible with their ability to spin out of throws in midair and land on the stomach/knees. There definitely are a lot of missed throws and most players do not try much on the mat because it is unusual to win at this level on the mat and they don't want to spend the energy and time to try. If nothing is happening they get stood up really quickly. When there is progression or at least a threat of a mat technique they will let the action go on for a little, but not too long (very similar to Freestyle). Many of the competitors do not even bother to try a technique or even wait for the ref to call stop. They jsut stand up and walk back to the middle. In local tournaments I go to, the majority of the beginner matches are won on the mat and then as you go up in rank techniques in the feet become more important.

    At the Olympic level I am learning that penalties are really important and decide lots of matches. So going for throws even if they are not successful is a good strategy to get a stalling called on your opponent, but at the same time there is a penalty for "false attack" which I have seen called this Olympic, meaning you are just diving to mat with a pretend attack to waste time or avoid your opponent's offense.

    I am not sure why Judo does not emphasize back arches, probably because of the gi and the way it is gripped prevents closing the distance and getting hip to hip for a belly to belly throw. Occasionally, you see a big back supplex as a counter to a hip throw, but this is why players going for hip throws usual drop to the mat to finish the technique (or to bail out of a bad attack) so as to avoid being taken backwards for a big throw.

    I would say comparing it to Greco there are a lot more of the spectacular throws in Judo at the highest level, which is the essence of both sports. How many five points throws are we expecting to see in final rounds of Olympic Greco? I would guess that probably 1/3 of the late round matches feature a really good Judo throw.
    There are also a lot more legitimate throw attempts in Judo, because the consequences for a missed throw are no where as severe as they are in wrestling.

  9. #36
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    Default Re: London Olympics: General Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by quinn14 View Post
    My judo instructor competed in the world games in the early 60's. He said the mat was raised a few feet and that was the out of bounds. No line, no warning. Just BLAM! He also calls us a bunch of pussies ( with a Korean accent) because of the line. He also complains about the "rolls" that they call throws now.

    ODH, watch for Kayla Harrison. She beat up my son 6 yrs ago when her gym came to ours. Shes favored to at least medal and shes even beaten the top ranked girl. I think her matches start Thursday.
    I have to agree with coach. You probably are all a bunch of pussies and that it is a lot easier to get an ippon throw. In my mind, there should be no doubt when an ippon is scored. It should be the type of throw that if the guy landed on concrete he would not be getting up.

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