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Thread: Blacks in Iowa sue over subconcious racism ??

  1. #28
    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
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    Default Re: Blacks in Iowa sue over subconcious racism ??

    Quote Originally Posted by ban basketball View Post
    Affirmative action is NOT a quota system. See the Bakke case and others to provide evidence of that. I work within an "affirmative action required instiution", and we have literally 5 minorites compared to hundreds of whites. If it was a "quota system," we would have been shut down 25 years ago.

    If the argument is going to be made that no group should get an "extra advantage" because of membership in that group, why would that NOT apply to the military? Is that not a "special advantage" because of membership in one group?

    Are they also more trained in fighting fires than civilians?
    Ban you only have 5 women where you work? Either way if its not a quota system it is a system that promotes the hiring of people because they are a minority, something that they were born into not because they were in a club. Nobody sues a company because they have to few military vets working there.

    Also Military personnel are not more trained to fight fires unless you are talking navy firefighters, consider that if you didn't go into the military and you took fire science at a local community college and got a job within 2 years rather than serving for 4.

    If we are using your definition, then hiring college graduates is affirmative action, these people get special privilege because they chose to be part of a group, right.

  2. #29

    Default Re: Blacks in Iowa sue over subconcious racism ??

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    Ban you only have 5 women where you work? Either way if its not a quota system it is a system that promotes the hiring of people because they are a minority, something that they were born into not because they were in a club. Nobody sues a company because they have to few military vets working there.

    Also Military personnel are not more trained to fight fires unless you are talking navy firefighters, consider that if you didn't go into the military and you took fire science at a local community college and got a job within 2 years rather than serving for 4.

    If we are using your definition, then hiring college graduates is affirmative action, these people get special privilege because they chose to be part of a group, right.
    How is a college graduate a disdvantaged group though? I couldn't see any reason to extent affirmative action to someone who will statistically earn more than a non-college graduate.

    Companies can be sued for affirmative action violations, but I know of none (I'm sure they exist) where they have been successful. Affrimative action allows for pretty broad implementation of the requirement, but quotas are not one of them. Quotas have repeatedly been ruled illegal.

    Yes, women are included in affirmative action initiatives, but so are minorities; they are not a lump sum, but exclusive categories under AA guidelines. UNI is another great example of a place that has NOWHERE NEAR the "quota," yet they have been going merrily along in full compliance for about 40 years, same as where I work.

    For the record, I don't necessarily have a problem with ex-military getting additonal points on such tests, but I will call into question someone's oppostion to AA, yet find it ok with some groups. Seems a bit disingenuous to me.
    UNI Panthers...Because it's just right.

  3. #30

    Default Re: Blacks in Iowa sue over subconcious racism ??

    Military is not covered in affirmative action. I do see why companies choose to hire ex-military, though. They have proven that they can endure hard work, they are trainable and they are not quitters. Anyone with an honorable discharge has proven to have those qualities.

    As far as the quota system goes......it may not be in the books, but according to the Dayton example, the DOJ has said that not enough blacks passed the test so they had to lower the standards. I don't understand that way of thinking. I don't know what the DOJ is thinking if there are not quotas. Maybe they figure they could save some money by not having to go to court to defend the fact that only 57 black applicants qualified. When you take into consideration that another state is currently racking up the taxpayer funded court costs to defend something as ridiculous as subconscious thought, I could understand why they would do that. It's a rock and a hard place. I guess they are just hoping that the unqualified employees won't screw things up and cost them more money than a drawn out court case. Either way, it sucks for citizens of Dayton who are forced to pay taxes and don't get the quality of service they deserve.

  4. #31
    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
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    Default Re: Blacks in Iowa sue over subconcious racism ??

    ban you said if a group of people get an extra advatage because of membership in a group then that would be AA, that would include college graduates.

    Its more disingenous to lump groups in that really dont belong. I think you misrepresent what AA is and what its intention was and you cloud the issue with other groups to make a false argument that more people benefit from it than others. According to you any group that anyoe belongs to that gives them any advatage to get hired is AA.

  5. #32

    Default Re: Blacks in Iowa sue over subconcious racism ??

    If everyone except for white males making over $100k a year is disadvantaged, wouldn't it just be easier to punish that group? Make us have to score 20% better on everything, pay higher taxes, etc. It would be cleaner and easier to manage. If you don't get the result you want, then punish us more.

  6. #33

    Default Re: Blacks in Iowa sue over subconcious racism ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Flop The Nuts View Post
    If everyone except for white males making over $100k a year is disadvantaged, wouldn't it just be easier to punish that group?
    Another term with Obama and that just may happen.

  7. #34

    Default Re: Blacks in Iowa sue over subconcious racism ??

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    I think you misrepresent what AA is and what its intention was
    I'd be willing to bet some serious money on that one.

    You in?
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  8. #35

    Default Re: Blacks in Iowa sue over subconcious racism ??

    Quote Originally Posted by quinn14 View Post
    Another term with Obama and that just may happen.
    I'm all for the redistubution of wealth. I spent over $10,000 on strippers last week at my buddy's bachelor party in Vegas. Making it rain to help the downtrodden.

  9. #36
    Olympic Champ r.payton@att.net's Avatar
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    Default Re: Blacks in Iowa sue over subconcious racism ??

    Thank you very much.
    You know, I think I would rather be a man than a god . We don't need anyone to believe in us. We just keep going anyhow. It's what we do.

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