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Thread: Duke Lacrosse case being dropped...finally!

  1. #28
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    Well, that's where the class issue comes in (read: inequality of power). These are college athletes from well-to-do families, attending a well-to-do school. She's an impoverished black woman who has to resort to stripping to get by. So your analogy to Ms. mini-skirt isn't entirely appropriate.

    I think ODH's complaint is based on their appearance of standing on high moral ground. If I, with my education, and my nice clothes fancy car, were to occasionally head to the poor part of town (all very "legal"), and a "love-child" came out of this, and I was sued for child support, and the DNA tests came back in my favor, it probably would be inappropriate for me to run around in a suit (contrast the media pictures of the boys and the girl and the disparity in their respective appearances) at a press conference, taking shots at the "gold-digging" woman and her lawyer--even if I was "right".
    Last edited by matclone; 04-12-2007 at 04:35 PM.

  2. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by BonnieJ2 View Post
    Sorry, Flop, but it wasn't choir practice, it was a party and the innocents were not of legal age.
    You're right, they deserved to be accused of rape. I get it now.

  3. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by matclone View Post
    Well, that's where the class issue comes in (read: inequality of power). These are college athletes from well-to-do families, attending a well-to-do school. She's an impoverished black woman who has to resort to stripping to get by. So your analogy to Ms. mini-skirt isn't entirely appropriate.

    I think ODH's complaint is based on their appearance of standing on high moral ground. If I, with my education, and my nice clothes fancy car, were to occasionally head to the poor part of town (all very "legal"), and a "love-child" came out of this, and I was sued for child support, and the DNA tests came back in my favor, it probably would be inappropriate for me to run around in a suit (contrast the media pictures of the boys and the girl and the disparity in their respective appearances) at a press conference, taking shots at the "gold-digging" woman and her lawyer--even if I was "right".
    Matclone, you seem to see "color' in everything, and in most of your postings you give the lower class (in terms of income, social status, whatever) a few extra points just because they are lower on the totem pole. I'd feel the same way regardless of whether the stripper was white, yellow, or brown - how about you? If the stripper came from a rich family, would the situation be different for you?

    Anyone who wrongfully accuses someone of rape is a worthless human being. Stuff like that goes beyond color and class, imo.

  4. #31
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    You're right, they deserved to be accused of rape. I get it now.

    Why do you purposely fail to acknowledge her point? Why do you exaggerate someone's comment to bolster your point? No one here or anywhere else said they deserved to be accused of rape.

    I became aware of this game when I was just a child. Johnny does something wrong, that he knows was wrong. Dad starts to talk off the belt. Johnny screams and cries and says, "but Tommy did it!"--as if to say he's wrong doing is somehow not so wrong. Dad continues to take off his belt.

    I see Johnny all over the place these days. Talk radio uses that argument every day, and predictably, it comes up again in this story.
    Last edited by matclone; 04-12-2007 at 04:49 PM.

  5. #32
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    No Flop, you studiously avoid class and color, as if it doesn't exist. As I've mentioned before, that is our history, and part of who we are today. That is America. To paraphrase John Lennon, we like to think we're all clever, and classless,and free. But were not. If you don't want to acknowledge that, well, you're supporting the status quo--which works fine if you're one of those with status.
    Last edited by matclone; 04-12-2007 at 05:09 PM.

  6. #33
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    Here's something else that's happening around this incident: several of us are merely trying to complicate the story a little. But no. But in response is this attitude that there can be but one view and one view only, as if to say, "don't you dare act like a human being, just stick to the talking points".

  7. #34

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    Imus, Sharpton, Jackson, the Duke Lacrosse players, your 15 minutes are over! I hope tomorrow brings something interesting and new.
    "All my life I have tried to pluck a thistle and plant a flower wherever the flower would grow in thought and mind." -- Abraham Lincoln

  8. #35
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    We will continue to argue about race and class in this country until some things change. Ideas kind of ebb and flow, or pendulum if you prefer, but at the moment the divide seems to be getting worse, rather than better and this affair has enhanced the divide.
    Last edited by matclone; 04-12-2007 at 05:16 PM.

  9. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by matclone View Post
    You're right, they deserved to be accused of rape. I get it now.

    Why do you purposely fail to acknowledge her point? Why do you exaggerate someone's comment to bolster your point? No one here or anywhere else said they deserved to be accused of rape.

    I became aware of this game when I was just a child. Johnny does something wrong, that he knows was wrong. Dad starts to talk off the belt. Johnny screams and cries and says, "but Tommy did it!"--as if to say he's wrong doing is somehow not so wrong. Dad continues to take off his belt.

    I see Johnny all over the place these days. Talk radio uses that argument every day, and predictably, it comes up again in this story.
    I don't follow the Johnny and Daddy thing. No one has said that they "deserve' it, but many of you feel no compassion for the Duke kids, and strongly imply that the Dukies share some blame for being falsely accused of rape. Why do you feel that way? Jealousy? Envy? Racism? Class hatred?

    Bonnie J2 -"It would be a better context if these were innocent choir boys who were taken advantage of, but THEY hired the strippers so I have a hard time feeling sorry for them."

    Matclone brings the divisive race and class issues into the discussion: "Everyone will be eager to buy them drinks, secure in the knowledge that a poor black woman was put in her place."

    ODH - "They were playing with fire and got burnt"

    Bonnie J2 - "Sorry, Flop, but it wasn't choir practice, it was a party and the innocents were not of legal age."

    Matclone - "These are college athletes from well-to-do families, attending a well-to-do school. She's an impoverished black woman who has to resort to stripping to get by."

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