Originally Posted by Dart Shark

... uh, common sense check people. How many of you knowingly go to "smoke-filled bars" on purpose? I'm not talking bars that allow smoking, but the slippery slope of this defense, a smoke-filled bar choking out patrons?

Personally, I like the non-smoking thing in certain places, but there are some dungy, holes-in-the-wall where the bar tender smokes, the waitstaff smokes, the doorman smokes, the guy with the trache smokes, everyone in the place is usually smoking ... do the people who complain about the smoking ban and their health EVER go into those places?

Most people in this discussion would never want to work at these types of places, yet they use it as a crutch of the argument. Honestly, are you working at Slappy's Bait Shop & Grille and complaining about smoking? If it were someplace nice like a Granite City or something of the like ... I can understand. Family establishments, etc.

Don't tell the irish hooligan soccer bar with the flat beer and salty patrons they can't smoke ... why? Chances are the smoking ban proponents will never go in there to start with.

I do, however, like coming home and not reeking of cigarettes and when I'm out with friends, the ban keeps me from rifling through a pack. So it's been good for me, but don't forget to use common sense when arguing this fact.

I went bowling on Friday ... the stench of cigarettes wasn't present ... something didn't feel right. This was no TRUE bowling alley.

Until recently, there really wasn't a jazz or blues venue that was smoke free, except for the Bluesfest and Jazzfest. So you're telling us to just stay home?

And about jobs.... I wasn't working at Slappy's bait shop, I was working in the Industrial Design department at Stewart Warner, a large manufacturing company (back when things were made in the US). I was working in the corporate office. When I freelanced I was working with ad agencies and design firms in downtown Chicago and they were smokey. I'm just glad it's not like that any more.

Smoke-filled air may be add to the ambience for you but it's a lot more serious than that for some.

Bonnie,

Please take the time to realize my comments are not and were not directed at your explanation. As a result, it spins my statement and skews the relevance.

I never said to stay home, but the predominance of my comments were about the "Smoke-filled bars" everyone seems to provide a doomsday defense for. The bowling line was a joke -- tongue-in-cheek if you will. I figured people would make the connection.

I don't want cigarette smoke in my working environment and I never said that either. I never inferred that. I'm not twisting your argument, so I would have hoped people wouldn't twist mine.

I also wasn't referring to you working at Slappys, rather using that (or my old haunt in PA) as a reference where everyone in the place smoked.

So, for those of you that missed it -- here's COMMON SENSE.

Do people who don't like smoking ... why would you even consider going into a "smoke filled bar?" A dive? A sh*thole? If you're going to come off as "I don't want to breathe your smoke, why patron places where A) YOU KNOW there's going to be a cloud and B) has no redeeming quality other than drunk people smoking cigarettes escaping their lives?

I'm using the most far-fetched establishment as an example and people still don't understand.

I don't want to smell or breathe smoke at places like work, restaurants, DMV, etc. ... but to target smoke-filled saloons, and then never have any inclination to step into such places, is saying "I don't want to breathe your smoke, which is fine, but you can't breathe it either ... and you can't do it in a place I will never patronize."

Originally Posted by Champ Kind

When someone drinks they put you at risk of many things. More drunks are going to start fights or stumble and maybe knock you over(you could break a hip Spider!). As Augie Smith said, if he doesn't want to hear screaming kids he doesn't go to Chuck E. Cheese, its that simple. I don't like McDonald's food, so I don't go there, I don't need the government banning their horrible food for me.

That's not the point. People go to McDonalds to eat McDonalds food. People go to Chuckie Cheese to play in a bin full of snot-covered balls. That's what they're both selling. A restaurant sells food, and I go there to have dinner, not to breathe carcinogens. If I go into a tobacco shop, I would expect to smell tobacco, but I shouldn't have to expect it to ruin my dinner.

I should be able to go wherever I want to go without having to smell or breathe smoke. Smokers do not have the right to polute MY air. If that's self righteous, then so be it.

Originally Posted by BonnieJ2

Until recently, there really wasn't a jazz or blues venue that was smoke free, except for the Bluesfest and Jazzfest. So you're telling us to just stay home?

And about jobs.... I wasn't working at Slappy's bait shop, I was working in the Industrial Design department at Stewart Warner, a large manufacturing company (back when things were made in the US). I was working in the corporate office. When I freelanced I was working with ad agencies and design firms in downtown Chicago and they were smokey. I'm just glad it's not like that any more.

Smoke-filled air may be add to the ambience for you but it's a lot more serious than that for some.

If you wanted in the past to go to those types of places that is the risk you took. Just as when you go to any bar you run the risk of running into an idiot drunk that punches you. Obviously they aren't banning alcohol in that place so you don't get punched by idiot drunks now are they?

As stated earlier, if you did not like your work environment you should not work there. You can say all you want about HAVING to have the job, but you could have taken less pay or had to work in a different field if you wanted to, but you choose that field and that place to do your work. If a bartender doesn't want to be subjected to smoke then they will have to find a bar that is smoke-free or find a new profession. If a roofer can't bend over anymore they can't roof, so they will have to find a new job or suffer more pain.

Originally Posted by ccbig

However because alcohol is still legal and taxed drinkers of alcohol are allowed to drink in a bar with other people who choose to drink.

Sort of reminded me of part of Ron White's routine:

And at that point, I had the right to remain silent, but I didn't have the ability. The cop was like, "Mr. White, you are being charged with drunk in public-K!" I was like, "Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey! I was drunk in a bar! They, threw me into public-K! I don't want to be drunk in public! I wanna be drunk in a bar, which is perfectly legal! Arrest them!"

DartShark,
I did your post was not aimed just at me, but I wanted to convey that the there was a time when you didn't have a choice, you couldn't say "shall we go to the smoke-filled blues place or the smoke-free blues place?" because the smoke-free places didn't exist. Of course we didn't just go to a smokey bar and then act shocked that it was smokey, but when all our friends wanted to go out for a drink after work, it'd be fun to go too, But before the laws changed there were NO smoke-free bars.

Originally Posted by Dart Shark

Do people who don't like smoking ... why would you even consider going into a "smoke filled bar?" A dive? A sh*thole? If you're going to come off as "I don't want to breathe your smoke, why patron places where A) YOU KNOW there's going to be a cloud and B) has no redeeming quality other than drunk people smoking cigarettes escaping their lives?

Because my friends are going there. Because there is pool there. Because they have a jukebox filled with the best old blues records that you have ever heard. Because the tamale guy stops there at the exact moment I'm hungriest.

I think your argument makes it seem as all smoke filled bars have no other redeeming qualities when that's just not true. I just don't see why I should have to have an asthma attack because I want to go out with my friends.

And the bar I'm describing is called Ten Cat, on Ashland near Irving Park on the north side of Chicago.

Air in its natural state is smoke free (except in California during summer forest fires). Cigarette smoke is NOT a natural component of oxygen.

Therefore the onus is on the smoker to make the decision whether to frequent establishments that are now required by law in something like 20 states to be smoke-free.

The number of Americans who smoke is decreasing so, in this case, the majority rules. Luckily we can maintain tobacco sales by shipping it to China and other overseas markets