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Thread: Smoking ban in PA at last

  1. #19
    NCAA Champ ccbig's Avatar
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    Default Re: Smoking ban in PA at last

    Quote Originally Posted by bluestater View Post
    But here's the thing, Champ. I have serious asthma. It's under control now, but most of my life, I was hospitalized often. I wanted to be a waitress or bartender in college, and make the good money associated with it, but I couldn't because of the smoking. That sure sounds like discrimination to me,
    Nonsense. You knew of the risk and didn't work there. You could have waitered at a smoke free diner. You had a choice to work, and the freedom to choose where to work.

    If you chose not to work at a dynamite factory because it is dangerous should dynamite factories be banned because they are dangerous?
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  2. #20
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    Default Re: Smoking ban in PA at last

    Quote Originally Posted by ccbig View Post
    I couldn't disagree more.

    When you are warned you have the option of patronizing that business or not.

    I have had several jobs where I worked around and with dangerous chemicals.

    To work there I was given the information on material data safety sheets explaining each chemical that was used or handled at that facility. I had the option to work there or not.

    Having the ability to make an informed choice is all the difference in the world.
    Then I guess we just disagree on which right is more important: a smoker's right to smoke wherever he wants, or my right to go to whatever business I want without endangering my health.
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  3. #21
    NCAA Champ ccbig's Avatar
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    Default Re: Smoking ban in PA at last

    Quote Originally Posted by Spider View Post
    Then I guess we just disagree on which right is more important: a smoker's right to smoke wherever he wants, or my right to go to whatever business I want without endangering my health.

    Ah, but there is a difference. There are obvious places I agree should be smoke free. Schools, government offices etc. because everyone has to be able go there without a choice.

    A privately owned business is not one of them. You can choose not to go to a privately owned business.

    Here you are infringing on the rights of others when you take away the rights of the smoker and of the private business owner.

    I never said a smoke can smoke where ever they want. You don't want them to smoke anywhere.
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  4. #22

    Default Re: Smoking ban in PA at last

    Quote Originally Posted by Spider View Post
    Then I guess we just disagree on which right is more important: a smoker's right to smoke wherever he wants, or my right to go to whatever business I want without endangering my health.
    Spider:

    I would narrow those rights down a bit more. Which right is more important: the rights of the smoker to contaminate the air or the rights of others who have to breath it.
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  5. #23
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    Default Re: Smoking ban in PA at last

    Quote Originally Posted by ccbig View Post
    Ah, but there is a difference. There are obvious places I agree should be smoke free. Schools, government offices etc. because everyone has to be able go there without a choice.

    A privately owned business is not one of them. You can choose not to go to a privately owned business.

    Here you are infringing on the rights of others when you take away the rights of the smoker and of the private business owner.

    I never said a smoke can smoke where ever they want. You don't want them to smoke anywhere.
    But when a privately owned business is open to the public, why should a member of the public like me (or to a greater extent, bluestater) automatically be excluded from being able to patronize it without endangering my health. Again in my opinion, it's a choice I shouldn't have to make. A dynamite factory is inherently dangerous; a restaurant shouldn't be.

    My bottom line: a smoker's rights end with the air that I breathe.
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  6. #24
    NCAA Champ ccbig's Avatar
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    Default Re: Smoking ban in PA at last

    Quote Originally Posted by Spider View Post
    But when a privately owned business is open to the public, why should a member of the public like me (or to a greater extent, bluestater) automatically be excluded from being able to patronize it without endangering my health. Again in my opinion, it's a choice I shouldn't have to make. A dynamite factory is inherently dangerous; a restaurant shouldn't be.

    My bottom line: a smoker's rights end with the air that I breathe.

    You are so full of self righteous nonsense.

    You have the CHOICE to use that privately owned business or not.

    You have the CHOICE whether or not to "expose" yourself to the dangers of smoke filled air.

    You are trying to restrict others from having a CHOICE.

    A business that allows smoking would be an inherently dangerous place, you have the CHOICE whether or not to go there or work there. It is exactly the same thing as a dynamite plant in that respect.

    You wanting to be lazy about having to make a choice should not deny others the right to choose.
    If we don't fight hard enough for the things we stand for, at some point we have to recognize that we don't really stand for them.

    ~Paul Wellstone~

  7. #25

    Default Re: Smoking ban in PA at last

    Quote Originally Posted by bluestater View Post
    But here's the thing, Champ. I have serious asthma. It's under control now, but most of my life, I was hospitalized often. I wanted to be a waitress or bartender in college, and make the good money associated with it, but I couldn't because of the smoking. That sure sounds like discrimination to me,
    The same "discrimination" that you are feeling if you wanted to be a miner. Are you upset at the mining industry because it is bad for our asthma? As a worker you know the risks associated with your job and you accept them. People with bad backs aren't discriminated against in the roofing industry, they just don't do roofing, if they are smart.

    The problem is the government is stepping in and telling you how to run your business. Along these same lines the government is saying that they can tell you not to admit people that wear red shirts to your establishment. If an individual owner wants to ban red shirts at their establishment that is 100% fine with them and they can do what they want, but NEVER should the government step in and tell them they have do to that.
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  8. #26

    Default Re: Smoking ban in PA at last

    [quote=M Richardson;100327]First of all, having, a long time ago, been in the restaurant business, a restaurantuer is NOT allowed to "send as many drunks out into the streets as they please". Send an impaired driver out, assume the liability. Does that mean that bars cut everybody off? No. But if the driver is impaired, and you serve them, and they get into an accident, be ready to get sued for everything you ever thought you would own. Happens all of the time in California.
    Secondly, yes, the customers have the option of entering or not. However, the employees don't. Sidestream and second-hand smoke are major health threats for everyone exposed. When you work as a waiter or bartender in a smoking establishment, you are smoking all night long, even if you don't light up.
    The smoking ban in bars and restaurants has been in place in California for about 15 years. Everyone has adjusted. The smokers will go outside to get a fix during the evening, which is an inconvenience, but less of an inconvenience for them than their smoke is for everyone else. The ban is being expanded to other areas, including some outdoor venues. You can't smoke at a sports stadium, except in certain locations. Some cities have banned smoking in open-air food markets (farmer's markets). There is no smoking allowed anywhere on a school campus. (Anybody remember the days of opening the door to the teacher's lounge to what looked like a room on fire?) I really expect, within the next 10 to 15 years, for smoking anywhere outside the home or automobile to be banned. There are currently lawsuits in progress between condo owners because a smoker's smoke enters, through windows, or the smell through the walls and floors, a non-smoker's home. The non-smokers are saying that it makes their home unlivable. Smoking is a dying habit - literally and figuratively.[/quote

  9. #27
    Ancient Arachnid Spider's Avatar
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    Default Re: Smoking ban in PA at last

    Quote Originally Posted by ccbig View Post
    You are so full of self righteous nonsense.

    You have the CHOICE to use that privately owned business or not.

    You have the CHOICE whether or not to "expose" yourself to the dangers of smoke filled air.

    You are trying to restrict others from having a CHOICE.
    Okay, I'll say it one more time. Here are the two alternatives:

    1. My freedom to utilize any establishment I want without endangering my health.

    2. The smoker's freedom to smoke wherever he wants (except the places you elaborated above).

    Either way someone doesn't get to do what he wants to do, and I think #1 supercedes #2. I may well be self righteous, but I think it makes perfect sense.
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