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Thread: International style wrestling in MMA

  1. #10

    Default Re: International style wrestling in MMA

    To be fair, those rules favored Wrestlers heavily. I would hate to see those rules with Cro Cop or Fedor.


    Team Quest and all of those arent really grapplers. In reality grappling does not exist yet. Their is only submisssion wrestling. No one (this is a soapbox for me as this is EXACTLY what I want to do) has developed a world class wrestling game with a world class BJJ game. Look at arguably the best grappling competitor around - Jeff Monosn; his bread and butter is BJJ and pure strength. Randy Couture made taking Tim Sylvia down look easy - Jeff Monson shot one dimensional double legas to get sprawled on many many times

    The guys as Team Quest and other Wrestlers have developed a perfect adaptation of Wrestling to the ground. They use good chokes but they are usually modified headlocks and they cant really pass the guard and their knowledge of armlocks is rudimentary. They know how to defend BJJ perfectly and apply their wrestling. That is an art form. Lindland,Randleman and Coleman were all submitted with techniques that they really should not have been, if they were experienced at armlocks and kimuras etc........

    Truth be told you want to see a good example of Wrestling and BJJ watch Murilo Bustamente versus Matt Lindland. Darrell Gholar (yeah I know I mention him every post) prepared Murilo to pummel and push Lindland to the cage and avoid the center of the ring. He took a silver medalist wrestler and pushed and pummeled to the cage and won the fight there. That was a good combo.

    Although it goes contrary to what I said Randy Coutures win over Mike Van Arsdale was a great example; he won with a spinning gator choke which is a technical and difficult submission

  2. #11

    Default Re: International style wrestling in MMA

    Quote Originally Posted by dmaswary View Post

    Truth be told you want to see a good example of Wrestling and BJJ watch Murilo Bustamente versus Matt Lindland. Darrell Gholar (yeah I know I mention him every post) prepared Murilo to pummel and push Lindland to the cage and avoid the center of the ring. He took a silver medalist wrestler and pushed and pummeled to the cage and won the fight there. That was a good combo.


    Watch Randy Couture vs. Vitor Belfort (UFC 15) and Dan Henderson vs. Murilo Bustamente (Pride, 2003).






    Team Quest and all of those arent really grapplers. In reality grappling does not exist yet. Their is only submisssion wrestling. No one (this is a soapbox for me as this is EXACTLY what I want to do) has developed a world class wrestling game with a world class BJJ game. Look at arguably the best grappling competitor around - Jeff Monosn; his bread and butter is BJJ and pure strength. Randy Couture made taking Tim Sylvia down look easy - Jeff Monson shot one dimensional double legas to get sprawled on many many times
    The guys as Team Quest and other Wrestlers have developed a perfect adaptation of Wrestling to the ground. They use good chokes but they are usually modified headlocks and they cant really pass the guard and their knowledge of armlocks is rudimentary. They know how to defend BJJ perfectly and apply their wrestling. That is an art form.
    Jeff Monson was a Division I wrestler at Oregon State and at the University of Illinois and competed on the Senior level in USA Wrestling events for a number of years. He is a grappler.

    No-gi training is a style for ground game in MMA but it isn't pure bjj. There are new positions and different strategies. "Greco-roman wrestling" with gi isn't Greco-Roman Wrestling.

    Grappling is a new hybrid style of wrestling and bjj no-gi.


    In this camp there are :

    Gene Mills (world class wrestling game)
    Renzo Gracie (world class BJJ game)
    Ricky Lundell (2007 Grappling World Champion, 80 kg)

    http://www.genemills.com/grappling.htm



    .

  3. #12

    Default Re: International style wrestling in MMA

    Ive watched Jeff Monsons matches. I dont know what his background is but he certainly doesnt use much of it

    I dont know why you cited those matches, Murilo is a very good wrestler and Vitor is ok, but I dont really see what the point is?

    Submission - combining wrestling and no-gi BJJ has been in Aby Dghabi for years, its not only not new, its been around for over a decade. It still is very undeveloped in that most practicioners are either wrestlers with a little BJJ or vice versa.. I know of no one who is truly strong in both

  4. #13

    Default Re: International style wrestling in MMA

    Guys, I'm fully aware of how wrestlers need to learn submission and how to fight off from their back. What I was trying to ask is how pure fs/gr wrestler would adapt their mat wrestling to MMA. This is coming from a guy who lives in a country that doesn't offer folkstyle wrestling

  5. #14

    Default Re: International style wrestling in MMA

    If said wrestler was to land n their back they would have to do everything possible to get up, the wrestling reversals will work. Leg lacing is great to hold an opponetn and hit him and from the top if you just keep your elbows in and posture correctly base up to ground and pound, pinning the opponetnws hips.

    Its pretty straightforward really. Things like gut wrenches just move your opponent around but leave him where he started. Break downs to leg lacing are very good. In short - watch Mark Colemans early UFCs to see a Wrestler with nary a sumbissision and what he does. Its pretty indicative.

  6. #15

    Default Re: International style wrestling in MMA

    Quote Originally Posted by dangun View Post
    Guys, I'm fully aware of how wrestlers need to learn submission and how to fight off from their back. What I was trying to ask is how pure fs/gr wrestler would adapt their mat wrestling to MMA. This is coming from a guy who lives in a country that doesn't offer folkstyle wrestling
    Read book "Wrestling for Fighting" (R. Couture) and watch Randy Couture (UFC 13, 15, 15 japan).



    .

  7. #16

    Default Re: International style wrestling in MMA

    Right, but that goes back to what I said. The succesful wrestlers adapt a style in whch they cover up their No Gi BJJ weaknesses and apply their wrestling.

    True hybrid grapplers are rare. RandyCouture is the best example but he has gone quite outside the mold of wrestling purely and uses submisssion tqactics. Earlier UFCs with guy slike Randy and Mark Coleman back then sho wrestlers simply using wrestling.

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