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Thread: Dan Henderson vs Rich Franklin

  1. #19

    Default Re: Dan Henderson vs Rich Franklin

    I am sure he knows it helped him gain exposure and fame as do most of the fighters who have been on the show. Just like Franklin most tuffers have talked about how they would not want to do the show again.

    If you had an internship with Microsoft and parlayed that into a high paying executive position would you want to take an internship again if Microsoft asked just because that is how you got your foot in the door in the first place?

    Franklin took advantage of his opportunity by winning fights and drawing in a large fanbase which in turn has also helped the UFC. He won many of those fights for relatively small amounts of money so he has paid his dues. Regardless he is still doing the show but he is acknowledging the pay is low and it is not really a beneficial opportunity at this point.

  2. #20

    Default Re: Dan Henderson vs Rich Franklin

    You simply don't understand the value of being in front of the camera PJ. Your example is way off base, not even relevant to the discussion. It would make sense if Franklin was going back down to $18k + $18k to win, (eg high paying exec back to internship position). But you're young and inexperienced so lets let you slide with that blunder for now.

    Look at Chico Ortiz, hasn't won a meaningful fight in years, yet has been involved in record setting pay per views. It's not because he's so exciting or even because he was so much better than his competition, it's because they UFC pushed him, put his name out there, promoted the hell out of him and in turn, he began to command big money. One strong rumor is that he began dating Jenna so that he would be seen with her and his name would get even stronger. He didn't count on falling for the whore, (as you know you can't help who you fall in love with).
    Lets go Brent!

  3. #21

    Default Re: Dan Henderson vs Rich Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by clmetal View Post
    Here are comments from Franklin about what awaits if he wins this fight.

    "I was really excited to do the first season," Franklin said. I'd never done anything like that before, and it was a cool experience having never done it, but going back and doing it again? No, I'm not excited about it." The US coach will have to travel to the Wolfslair Academy in England for the elimination process and then spend the rest of the season at "The Ultimate Fighter" gym in Las Vegas. "It's six weeks in Vegas," Franklin explained. "I've been there for six weeks before and I'm constantly in Vegas and I've gotten to the point I can care less for staying in Vegas for that extended period of time. It's time away from my family and it's time away from the things that I either like doing or the things that I can do to make money, and the show doesn't pay real well so it's all around not as appealing."

    Update - Adolf told me that Dana hands the coaches a large suitcase full of $100 bills that is not reported to the IRS, so Franklin is just downplaying their generosity to throw off IRS agents.

    CBC News aired their look at mixed martial arts on Sunday with host Evan Solomon.

    Now before reading this is important to note that this piece has been in development for months and the interviews conducted with Dana White and Randy Couture were done prior to Couture returning to the UFC in September of last year.

    The piece centered around the treatment of fighters by dissecting fighter pay in comparison to what the UFC is generating and using the fight between Dana White and Randy Couture from 2007/08 as the backdrop for this story.

    White stated that if you are a top level star in the company than you make millions of dollars a year, if you are a mid level talent with upward mobility than you are making hundred of thousands of dollars a year and if you are a low level talent you are still making $60,000 - $80,000 and talent just starting in the company are making $8,000. Couture disputed these numbers stating talent still receiving $3,000 and $3,000 on the under card and cannot fight enough times a year to make that work. Mauro Ranallo notes that 5-7% of revenue goes to the fighters and compares it to 50% plus in other sports.

    Solomon then looked at the development of player's associations in other major league sports stating that the average NHL salary is $1.9 million a year while Major League Baseball's average salary is $3 million compared to $25,000 - $35,000 for the average UFC fighter with no benefits. White points out that there are numerous bonuses that are not reported and that there have been times where a guy that makes $50,000 and $50,000 and has a tremendous fight and they write a bonus cheque to them for another $150,000. Ranallo points out a fighter he spoke to who walked away with $4,000 after paying his fight camp and other expenses to prepare for the fight.

    Solomon states they made $2.5 million on the gate at UFC 83 in Montreal and cited 5.3 million buys in 2008 on 12 PPV events equaling $253 million, but White would not confirm that. Couture stated that on $253 million, they only paid out $17 million to fighters. White got defensive on this stating his argument that promoters are not allowed to make money because they are then labeled "scum bags" and he is a businessman who is going to make money.

    They then took a look at the state of MMA when Zuffa LLC bought the promotion in 2001 noting it was dead and they went $44 million in debt.

    They return to Couture who cites that injuries inflicted in training are covered by the fighters themselves and not the UFC. White states that he is not going to get medical coverage for fighters because it would be way too expensive for ultimate fighters. White says the rules they have put together compensate for the lack of a health plan and that there have no deaths in the UFC.

    Next is the topic of a fighter's union and White encourages Couture to try and start one, and adding that Couture has his own agenda. White says that baseball has been around for 100 years while this incarnation of the UFC is eight years old. Solomon noted that fighters were hesitant to go on camera and speak against the policies of the UFC showing Matt Serra and Jason MacDonald talking to Solomon but not airing their comments. Couture notes that the UFC controls so much and fighters are scared to speak out.

    They finish discussing Couture's return to the UFC to fight Brock Lesnar for $250,000 and $250,000 plus a share of the PPV. They finish on Couture noting that he lost the fight in the octagon and the fight outside of the octagon.

    White ends that "this is a war" and that people like Couture aren't going to be smart enough and there will be casualties in this war and no one should enter this thinking they can kick the UFC's ass because it won't happen.
    Last edited by Adolf Oliverbush; 01-13-2009 at 09:46 PM.
    Lets go Brent!

  4. #22

    Default Re: Dan Henderson vs Rich Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by Adolf Oliverbush View Post
    You simply don't understand the value of being in front of the camera PJ. Your example is way off base, not even relevant to the discussion. It would make sense if Franklin was going back down to $18k + $18k to win, (eg high paying exec back to internship position). But you're young and inexperienced so lets let you slide with that blunder for now.

    Look at Chico Ortiz, hasn't won a meaningful fight in years, yet has been involved in record setting pay per views. It's not because he's so exciting or even because he was so much better than his competition, it's because they UFC pushed him, put his name out there, promoted the hell out of him and in turn, he began to command big money. One strong rumor is that he began dating Jenna so that he would be seen with her and his name would get even stronger. He didn't count on falling for the whore, (as you know you can't help who you fall in love with).
    hah the comparison is to show that just because you benefitted from an opportunity to gain a higher level of status or wealth does not mean you should feel obligated to do that lower level opportunity again. The first time around he was not as well known so the tuf coaching, while an unpleasant experience, was necessary to boost his career. Now his stock is already high so there is no need to go through an unpleasant experience again. Just as with the internship is a gateway bigger and better things once you are past it you dont want to go through it again.

    Tito Ortiz is also extremely charismatic and knew how to market himself. He was great at marketing himself and developing a fanbase well before Dana White pushed him and well before he coached tuf. It was a mutual beneficial relationship between the UFC and Ortiz. They were the biggest show in the town and he was the biggest star in town and together they helped each other.

    Yea I bet he did not expect to fall for the whore of which which he can not control but I am surprised he decided to have children and marry her which of course he can control.

  5. #23
    Olympic Champ clmetal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dan Henderson vs Rich Franklin

    If White said it, it's irrefutable. Kind of like when the Fertittas told us the 6 figure contract meant $340g. Meltzer later pointed out the term "6 figures" is used to refer to an annual salary, and these guys would only get that amount if they won all the fights on the contract (10 or something) over a period of 3 years or something.

    Franklin's been champ, done TUF and he's been in many main events. He'd be forced to do this (again) and he's not happy with the money - in fact, he suggest he'd make more if he stayed in Ohio (clinics I imagine)

    Also, people who defend the UFC always point to the exposure angle, that these guys should make their money outside of the UFC.

    But we see the UFC take that away from them more and more and more. Rich could be away for 6 weeks, fighters signed a likeness away for a video game that pays the UFC and not them, Huerta (who is now taking a break from MMA) was on the road doing pro bono UFC advertising.
    "I don?t give a f_ck about money, bro. Believe me when I tell you that." Dana White

  6. #24

    Default Re: Dan Henderson vs Rich Franklin

    PJ, Rich Franklin's stock is not high. The UFC can't decide what weight division to keep him in. He can't win the belt at 185 and he isn't close to a shot at 205. The fact that he has an opportunity to be in front of the camera affords him more leverage, (in terms of new fans wanting to see him fight) and thus provides more options (sponsorship money for example and high profile fights) given that there isn't a title in sight for him. Who ever goes on that show opposite Bisping, (it will be Henderson) could shatter PPV records in Germany during the middle of the afternoon. Mark my words.
    Lets go Brent!

  7. #25

    Default Re: Dan Henderson vs Rich Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by Adolf Oliverbush View Post
    PJ, Rich Franklin's stock is not high. The UFC can't decide what weight division to keep him in. He can't win the belt at 185 and he isn't close to a shot at 205. The fact that he has an opportunity to be in front of the camera affords him more leverage, (in terms of new fans wanting to see him fight) and thus provides more options (sponsorship money for example and high profile fights) given that there isn't a title in sight for him. Who ever goes on that show opposite Bisping, (it will be Henderson) could shatter PPV records in Germany during the middle of the afternoon. Mark my words.
    Hes headlining a main event and is one of the most popular fighters in the UFC. They want him as a coach of tuf because of how popular he is and the word is that they would prefer him over Henderson since Henderson is not as popular and not as charismatic.

    If he beats Henderson they could easily push him towards a title shot at 205. He is much more popular and marketable than Machida, Shogun, Jardine, T. Silva, Cane, and even the champion Evans. Of course they need ratings and since he is popular having him on tuf is also a good option.
    Last edited by p-jersey; 01-13-2009 at 10:13 PM.

  8. #26

    Default Re: Dan Henderson vs Rich Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by p-jersey View Post
    Hes headlining a main event and is one of the most popular fighters in the UFC. They want him as a coach of tuf because of how popular he is and the word is that they would prefer him over Henderson since Henderson is not as popular and not as charismatic.

    If he beats Henderson they could easily push him towards a title shot at 205. He is much more popular and marketable than Machida, Shogun, Jardine, T. Silva, Cane, and even the champion Evans.
    Yeah, I get all that PJ, and what happens if he beats Hendo, coaches on TUF and gets a shot at the 205 belt??? Who do you think will be getting pay per view cuts of that title fight? Hint for you, it will be the guy that was coaching on TUF. You just pointed out the big picture for the rest of the guys that don't get it, but you're still arguing with me about how in the short term, he'll be losing money!!!!!!! The guy's being an idiot. He can't see the forrest because the trees are in the way. And I don't mean Forrest Griffin either, the last TUF coach who became champion (and filthy rich) at 205.
    Lets go Brent!

  9. #27

    Default Re: Dan Henderson vs Rich Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by clmetal View Post
    If White said it, it's irrefutable. Kind of like when the Fertittas told us the 6 figure contract meant $340g. Meltzer later pointed out the term "6 figures" is used to refer to an annual salary, and these guys would only get that amount if they won all the fights on the contract (10 or something) over a period of 3 years or something.

    Franklin's been champ, done TUF and he's been in many main events. He'd be forced to do this (again) and he's not happy with the money - in fact, he suggest he'd make more if he stayed in Ohio (clinics I imagine)

    Also, people who defend the UFC always point to the exposure angle, that these guys should make their money outside of the UFC.

    But we see the UFC take that away from them more and more and more. Rich could be away for 6 weeks, fighters signed a likeness away for a video game that pays the UFC and not them, Huerta (who is now taking a break from MMA) was on the road doing pro bono UFC advertising.
    Claudale, I'm just about ready to put you on my ignore list. All you do is take little pot shots. I take the time to look some figures and facts up for you and you dismiss it as dishonest or disingenuous. Name one time Dana White has ever lied to us. Give me some documented facts, not some made up BS.
    Lets go Brent!

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