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Thread: Around the Horn talks about Elite XC

  1. #1
    Super Moderator Zapp Brannigan's Avatar
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    Default Around the Horn talks about Elite XC

    JA Adande talked about it in his face time, said it was a good thing, and that we won't have that "second class" product embarassing the sport on national TV. Tony Reali agreed with him, and said now we won't have idiots confusing Elite with the REAL MMA from the UFC. I was startled by this, and had to share. I'm paraphrasing.
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  2. #2

    Default Re: Around the Horn talks about Elite XC

    Reali made a some good points but sounds too much like a UFC spokesman.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Around the Horn talks about Elite XC

    There was plenty of 'real MMA' in Elite.


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  4. #4

    Default Re: Around the Horn talks about Elite XC

    Quote Originally Posted by MetsFan View Post
    There was plenty of 'real MMA' in Elite.
    But that's not it was known for. Your average sports fan knew about Kimbo Slice, hardly a real mixed martial artist. When my non-MMA fan friends brought up Elite XC to me, they would never mention Robbie Lawler or Jake Shields. It was always Kimbo.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Around the Horn talks about Elite XC

    I hear ya bluestater. It's just that if the guys on Around the Horn classified the whole org as not being real MMA as it seems Tony Reali did from Zapp's summary above, then they misrepresented it. Besides that, Kimbo Slice is a real mixed martial artist (maybe not a real good one and certainly not what they hyped him to be, but that's a whole other discussion). Even assuming that Kimbo was not real MMA and that he is what the average sports fan knew as Elite, there was more to Elite than Kimbo. So, it seems that the "experts" on Around the Horn either didn't know what they were talking about and knew nothing more about MMA than the average/casual sports fan - or they only knew what Dana White told them.


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  6. #6

    Default Re: Around the Horn talks about Elite XC

    Quote Originally Posted by MetsFan View Post
    I hear ya bluestater. It's just that if the guys on Around the Horn classified the whole org as not being real MMA as it seems Tony Reali did from Zapp's summary above, then they misrepresented it. Besides that, Kimbo Slice is a real mixed martial artist (maybe not a real good one and certainly not what they hyped him to be, but that's a whole other discussion). Even assuming that Kimbo was not real MMA and that he is what the average sports fan knew as Elite, there was more to Elite than Kimbo. So, it seems that the "experts" on Around the Horn either didn't know what they were talking about and knew nothing more about MMA than the average/casual sports fan - or they only knew what Dana White told them.
    I fully understand (and agree with) the knock on the yahoo sports MMA crew. They speak for the UFC so that they will be fed stories they can break.

    But why in the world would non-MMA TV personalities on the biggest sports network be spouting Dan White stuff. They are bigger than he is, no way do they play the role of mouthpiece for him. I would be willing to bet none of them has ever attended a Dana White press conference, watched a youtube clip, or read a quote from some obscure MMA website. Not to mention that ESPN gets all of their MMA coverage through Sherdog, who has never catered to white or the UFC (the opposite if anything).

    I think it more likely that these guys have no more MMA knowledge than the average sportsfan. They probably have seen fights on TV and drawn their own conclusion. And it is probably the same one that every average viewer down to Joe Plumber drew. Despite some very enjoyable and solid MMA fights, I think average fans viewed Elite about like Arena Football. A great product, but not to be confused with the real thing.

    That is the reason the UFC will probably never have serious competition. Fair or not, the public simply views everyone else as minor leagues. And the financial cost to overcome that bias is enough to bankrupt any company.

    But either way its dumb to think ESPN is echoing Dana White comments.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Around the Horn talks about Elite XC

    I think it's sort of naive to assume that JB's words haven't trickled down into public consciousness. Besides the ubiquity of TUF, he has never missed an opportunity to badmouth almost all of his competitors nor any chance to puff up himself and the UFC. For them to be even discussing it shows that they know more than the average sportsfan. The average sportsfan LIKED watching Kimbo, and knew little else about MMA. That's what's supposed to be so wrong with Elite, according to some people. People are confusing REAL MMA (read: the UFC) with this Kimbo stuff (nevermind Lawler, Herman, Shields, Carano, et al).

    If everyone viewed Elite as minor leagues, it's interesting that they pulled such strong numbers on Kimbo's second show.

    Elite was a flawed product created by heavily flawed people. It was not, however, minor league or garbage.
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  8. #8

    Default Re: Around the Horn talks about Elite XC

    Quote Originally Posted by barrettO View Post
    I fully understand (and agree with) the knock on the yahoo sports MMA crew. They speak for the UFC so that they will be fed stories they can break.

    But why in the world would non-MMA TV personalities on the biggest sports network be spouting Dan White stuff. They are bigger than he is, no way do they play the role of mouthpiece for him. I would be willing to bet none of them has ever attended a Dana White press conference, watched a youtube clip, or read a quote from some obscure MMA website. Not to mention that ESPN gets all of their MMA coverage through Sherdog, who has never catered to white or the UFC (the opposite if anything).

    I think it more likely that these guys have no more MMA knowledge than the average sportsfan. They probably have seen fights on TV and drawn their own conclusion. And it is probably the same one that every average viewer down to Joe Plumber drew. Despite some very enjoyable and solid MMA fights, I think average fans viewed Elite about like Arena Football. A great product, but not to be confused with the real thing.

    That is the reason the UFC will probably never have serious competition. Fair or not, the public simply views everyone else as minor leagues. And the financial cost to overcome that bias is enough to bankrupt any company.

    But either way its dumb to think ESPN is echoing Dana White comments.
    I don't think the average fan viewed Elite like Arena football or a minor league ... that has been the issue longtime MMA fans have had with the Kimbo stuff and presumably was the point that Adande & Reali were making - now people will stop confusing that "farce" with real MMA and stop thinking Kimbo would beat any other heavyweight in the world. Case in point, my son's friend is an average sports fan who said, "This is crazy ... Kimbo is gonna kill this guy" when he saw Petruzelli in the cage. The "average sports fan" does not view these other orgs like Elite as minor leagues; it's more the "average MMA fan" who views them that way. The average viewer sees them as all being the same.

    And, I wasn't suggesting that they were playing the specific role of UFC mouthpiece or were directly fed info to talk about - that was more an inference to them not really knowing what they were talking about and basing their opinion off of the type of stuff Dana has said because sportswriters, etc., who never followed the sport and don't do proper research before spouting off comments like that likely only know of recent UFC as "real MMA." They don't need to go to some obscure MMA website to read Dana White comments because they are pervasive when it comes to mainstream reporting of MMA.

    Painting the whole organization with the Kimbo brush and suggesting it's not real MMA (and even suggesting that Kimbo was not real MMA) was irresponsible and inaccurate IMO doing disservice to both the other fighters in Elite and the sport of MMA in general. Although Kimbo was not what they purported him to be, he was in fact doing real MMA. Therefore, comments like this can be dangerous for MMA from the standpoint that them saying Elite was not real MMA may make people somehow equate Elite or other orgs with WWE (real vs fake MMA, real vs fake wrestling). Rather than evaluating the 'level' of one MMA org vs another, people may start wondering if one org is 'fake' or not.
    Last edited by MetsFan; 10-22-2008 at 01:19 PM.


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  9. #9

    Default Re: Around the Horn talks about Elite XC

    Quote Originally Posted by MetsFan View Post
    I don't think the average fan viewed Elite like Arena football or a minor league ... that has been the issue longtime MMA fans have had with the Kimbo stuff and presumably was the point that Adande & Reali were making - now people will stop confusing that "farce" with real MMA and stop thinking Kimbo would beat any other heavyweight in the world. Case in point, my son's friend is an average sports fan who said, "This is crazy ... Kimbo is gonna kill this guy" when he saw Petruzelli in the cage. The "average sports fan" does not view these other orgs like Elite as minor leagues; it's more the "average MMA fan" who views them that way. The average viewer sees them as all being the same.

    And, I wasn't suggesting that they were playing the specific role of UFC mouthpiece or were directly fed info to talk about - that was more an inference to them not really knowing what they were talking about and basing their opinion off of the type of stuff Dana has said because sportswriters, etc., who never followed the sport and don't do proper research before spouting off comments like that likely only know of recent UFC as "real MMA." They don't need to go to some obscure MMA website to read Dana White comments because they are pervasive when it comes to mainstream reporting of MMA.

    Painting the whole organization with the Kimbo brush and suggesting it's not real MMA (and even suggesting that Kimbo was not real MMA) was irresponsible and inaccurate IMO doing disservice to both the other fighters in Elite and the sport of MMA in general. Although Kimbo was not what they purported him to be, he was in fact doing real MMA. Therefore, comments like this can be dangerous for MMA from the standpoint that them saying Elite was not real MMA may make people somehow equate Elite or other orgs with WWE (real vs fake MMA, real vs fake wrestling). Rather than evaluating the 'level' of one MMA org vs another, people may start wondering if one org is 'fake' or not.
    I agree completely. I just don't think it comes from Dana White. Maybe I am wrong.

    I personally liked Elite XC's 2nd and 3rd CBS offering. Thought they were far more entertaining than our most recent UFC. But it doesn't change the fact that the UFC has cornered the market on the MMA Brand name. Even casual fans assume that other organizations are inferior product (even though they tuned in to watch Kimbo in record numbers).

    I truly believe this is what Dana has going for him. He is not a superior business man, he doesn't know the fight game better, he is certainly not more professional. He is just lucky enough to have had the UFC arrive first on the scene. I really think that is all that sets him apart. Its like he is playing poker with the big stack. He doesn't have to be better, the odds are already on his side.

    The UFC got here first, so tight now on an inescapable level, anyone who starts a new organization is viewed as the minor leagues just like if someone tried to compete with the NFL.

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